Re: [OSPF] [Isis-wg] Link-State Routing WG charter
Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com> Fri, 26 January 2018 10:35 UTC
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To: Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>, "Dolganow, Andrew (Nokia - SG/Singapore)" <andrew.dolganow@nokia.com>, "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>, Alia Atlas <akatlas@gmail.com>
Cc: OSPF List <ospf@ietf.org>, "isis-wg@ietf.org" <isis-wg@ietf.org>
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From: Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>
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Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2018 10:35:20 +0000
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Subject: Re: [OSPF] [Isis-wg] Link-State Routing WG charter
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OK, I know when I am in the rough. S On 26/01/2018 03:27, Jeff Tantsura wrote: > > +2 > > we already have a kitchen-sink protocol to do so… > > Cheers, > > Jeff > > *From: *OSPF <ospf-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of "Dolganow, Andrew > (Nokia - SG/Singapore)" <andrew.dolganow@nokia.com> > *Date: *Thursday, January 25, 2018 at 18:02 > *To: *"Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" > <ginsberg@cisco.com>, Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>, Alia > Atlas <akatlas@gmail.com> > *Cc: *OSPF List <ospf@ietf.org>, "isis-wg@ietf.org" <isis-wg@ietf.org> > *Subject: *Re: [OSPF] [Isis-wg] Link-State Routing WG charter > > +1 to that > > *From: *Isis-wg <isis-wg-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of "Acee Lindem > (acee)" <acee@cisco.com> > *Date: *Friday, January 26, 2018 at 3:18 AM > *To: *"Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>, Stewart Bryant > <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>, Alia Atlas <akatlas@gmail.com> > *Cc: *OSPF List <ospf@ietf.org>, "isis-wg@ietf.org" <isis-wg@ietf.org> > *Subject: *Re: [Isis-wg] Link-State Routing WG charter > > I agree with Les about being selective about LSR non-routing usage. > > Thanks, > > Acee > > *From: *"Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com> > *Date: *Thursday, January 25, 2018 at 1:59 PM > *To: *Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>, Acee Lindem > <acee@cisco.com>, Alia Atlas <akatlas@gmail.com> > *Cc: *OSPF WG List <ospf@ietf.org>, "isis-wg@ietf.org" <isis-wg@ietf.org> > *Subject: *RE: [Isis-wg] Link-State Routing WG charter > > Stewart - > > *From:*Stewart Bryant [mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com] > *Sent:* Thursday, January 25, 2018 4:32 AM > *To:* Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com>; Acee Lindem (acee) > <acee@cisco.com>; Alia Atlas <akatlas@gmail.com> > *Cc:* OSPF List <ospf@ietf.org>; isis-wg@ietf.org > *Subject:* Re: [Isis-wg] Link-State Routing WG charter > > Les > > I agree wrt L2 > > Isn't another focus collecting the information to feed into an SDN > controller via BGP-LS? That is really network layer state collection > rather than routing in the traditional sense. > > */[Les:] Please do not propose such language. This raises the old > discussion about using the IGPs as a transport for “just about > anything”./* > > */We long ago agreed that TE related information was “routing > information” – if for no other reason than it was grandfathered in. > But this does not alter the IGP’s focus on routing./* > > */I know we “stretch” the definition with things like MSD and S-BFD > discriminators, but I see these as carefully considered choices – and > ones w modest impact./* > > */Institutionalizing the IGPs as an “SDN Distribution Protocol” is not > something I want in the charter./* > > */Les/* > > *//* > > - Stewart > > On 24/01/2018 23:09, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) wrote: > > It occurred to me after sending this that perhaps a better > statement as regards IS-IS would be: > > “LSR’s work is focused on IP/IPv6 and Layer 2 routing…” > > though admittedly there isn’t much going on as regards Layer2 and > IS-IS at the moment. > > Les > > *From:*Isis-wg [mailto:isis-wg-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of > *Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) > *Sent:* Wednesday, January 24, 2018 2:33 PM > *To:* Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com> > <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>; Acee Lindem (acee) > <acee@cisco.com> <mailto:acee@cisco.com>; Alia Atlas > <akatlas@gmail.com> <mailto:akatlas@gmail.com> > *Cc:* OSPF List <ospf@ietf.org> <mailto:ospf@ietf.org>; > isis-wg@ietf.org <mailto:isis-wg@ietf.org> > *Subject:* Re: [Isis-wg] Link-State Routing WG charter > > Since a charter only provides a general definition of the work > that falls within the purview of the WG it requires some adjunct > to keep track of the current priorities. > > That could be the list of milestones (which OSPF has regularly > maintained – but IS-IS has not) – or it could simply be the list > of active WG documents. > > I just don’t see that we should expect the charter to express > “work in progress” now – or in the future. > > Alia – do you think the statement about IS-IS: > > “LSR’s work is focused on IP routing…” > > Could be improved by saying > > “LSR’s work is focused on IP/IPv6 routing…” > > ??? > > Les > > *From:*Isis-wg [mailto:isis-wg-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of > *Stewart Bryant > *Sent:* Wednesday, January 24, 2018 10:01 AM > *To:* Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com <mailto:acee@cisco.com>>; > Alia Atlas <akatlas@gmail.com <mailto:akatlas@gmail.com>> > *Cc:* OSPF List <ospf@ietf.org <mailto:ospf@ietf.org>>; > isis-wg@ietf.org <mailto:isis-wg@ietf.org> > *Subject:* Re: [Isis-wg] Link-State Routing WG charter > > Yes that fixes that. > > How about: > > s/The following topics are expected to be an initial focus:/ In > addition to ongoing maintenance, the following topics are expected > to be an initial focus:/ > > I am just concerned that we need not to loose focus on work in > progress. > > - Stewart > > On 24/01/2018 17:54, Acee Lindem (acee) wrote: > > How about: > > LSR will coordinate with CCAMP and BIER on their extensions to > the LSR IGPs as > > applicable to LSV protocol operation and scale. > > Thanks, > > Acee > > *From: *Isis-wg <isis-wg-bounces@ietf.org> > <mailto:isis-wg-bounces@ietf.org>on behalf of Alia Atlas > <akatlas@gmail.com> <mailto:akatlas@gmail.com> > *Date: *Wednesday, January 24, 2018 at 12:42 PM > *To: *Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com> > <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com> > *Cc: *OSPF WG List <ospf@ietf.org> <mailto:ospf@ietf.org>, > "isis-wg@ietf.org" <mailto:isis-wg@ietf.org><isis-wg@ietf.org> > <mailto:isis-wg@ietf.org> > *Subject: *Re: [Isis-wg] Link-State Routing WG charter > > Hi Stewart, > > Thanks for the quick feedback. Feel free to provide > suggestions for text changes if you have them. > > You've certainly written enough charters :-) > > Regards, > > Alia > > On Wed, Jan 24, 2018 at 12:32 PM, Stewart Bryant > <stewart.bryant@gmail.com <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>> > wrote: > > Alia, > > I think that this merger is long overdue, and hopefully it > will help new features to be written in an aligned way. > > I think the remit to perform general maintenance should > slightly clarified since the way the charter is written > they look like they are at a lower priority than the > enumerated list. > > I would have thought that "LSR can coordinate with CCAMP > and BIER on their extensions " should have been more > directive. > > - Stewart > > On 24/01/2018 17:18, Alia Atlas wrote: > > Here is the proposed charter for the LSR working group > > that will be created from the SPF and ISIS working groups. > > This is scheduled for internal review for the IESG > telechat on February 8. > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-lsr/ > > The Link-State Routing (LSR) Working Group is > chartered to document current protocol implementation > practices and improvements, protocol usage scenarios, > maintenance and extensions of link-state routing > interior gateway protocols (IGPs) with a focus on > IS-IS, OSPFv2, and OSPFv3. The LSR Working Group is > formed by merging the isis and ospf WGs and will take > on all their existing adopted work at the time of > chartering. > > IS-IS is an IGP specified and standardized by ISO > through ISO 10589:2002 and additional RFC standards > with extensions to support IP that has been deployed > in the Internet for decades. For the IS-IS protocol, > LSR’s work is focused on IP routing, currently based > on the agreement in RFC 3563 with ISO/JTC1/SC6. The > LSR WG will interact with other standards bodies that > have responsible for standardizing IS-IS. > > OSPFv2 [RFC 2328 and extensions], is an IGP that has > been deployed in the Internet for decades. OSPFv3 > [RFC5340 and extensions] provides OSPF for IPv6 and > IPv4 [RFC5838] which can be delivered over IPv6 or > IPv4 [RFC 7949]. > > The LSR Working Group will generally manage its > specific work items by milestones agreed with the > responsible Area Director. > > The following topics are expected to be an initial focus: > > 1) Improving OSPF support for IPv6 and extensions > using OSPFv3 LSA Extendibility. > > 2) Extensions needed for Segment Routing and > associated architectural changes > > 3) YANG models for IS-IS, OSPFv2, and OSPFv3 and > extensions > > 4) Extensions for source-destination routing > [draft-ietf-rtgwg-dst-src-routing] > > 5) Potentially, extensions to better support specific > network topologies such as > > ones commonly used in data centers. > > The Link-State Routing (LSR) Working Group will > coordinate with other working groups, such as RTGWG, > SPRING, MPLS, TEAS, V6OPS, and 6MAN, to understand the > need for extensions and to confirm that the planned > work meets the needs. LSR can coordinate with CCAMP > and BIER on their extensions to the LSR IGPs as > useful. LSR may coordinate with other WGs as needed. > > Regards, > > Alia > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Isis-wg mailing list > > Isis-wg@ietf.org <mailto:Isis-wg@ietf.org> > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/isis-wg > > _______________________________________________ OSPF mailing list > OSPF@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf >
- [OSPF] Link-State Routing WG charter Alia Atlas
- Re: [OSPF] [Isis-wg] Link-State Routing WG charter Stewart Bryant
- Re: [OSPF] [Isis-wg] Link-State Routing WG charter Alia Atlas
- Re: [OSPF] [Isis-wg] Link-State Routing WG charter Acee Lindem (acee)
- Re: [OSPF] [Isis-wg] Link-State Routing WG charter Stewart Bryant
- Re: [OSPF] [Isis-wg] Link-State Routing WG charter Alia Atlas
- Re: [OSPF] [Isis-wg] Link-State Routing WG charter Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)
- Re: [OSPF] [Isis-wg] Link-State Routing WG charter Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)
- Re: [OSPF] [Isis-wg] Link-State Routing WG charter Jeff Tantsura
- Re: [OSPF] [Isis-wg] Link-State Routing WG charter Alia Atlas
- Re: [OSPF] [Isis-wg] Link-State Routing WG charter Alia Atlas
- Re: [OSPF] [Isis-wg] Link-State Routing WG charter Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)
- Re: [OSPF] [Isis-wg] Link-State Routing WG charter Stewart Bryant
- Re: [OSPF] [Isis-wg] Link-State Routing WG charter Julien Meuric
- Re: [OSPF] [Isis-wg] Link-State Routing WG charter Acee Lindem (acee)
- Re: [OSPF] Link-State Routing WG charter Dearlove, Christopher (UK)
- Re: [OSPF] [Isis-wg] Link-State Routing WG charter Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)
- Re: [OSPF] [Isis-wg] Link-State Routing WG charter Acee Lindem (acee)
- Re: [OSPF] [Isis-wg] Link-State Routing WG charter Stewart Bryant
- Re: [OSPF] [Isis-wg] Link-State Routing WG charter Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)
- Re: [OSPF] [Isis-wg] Link-State Routing WG charter Dolganow, Andrew (Nokia - SG/Singapore)
- Re: [OSPF] [Isis-wg] Link-State Routing WG charter Dolganow, Andrew (Nokia - SG/Singapore)
- Re: [OSPF] [Isis-wg] Link-State Routing WG charter Alia Atlas
- Re: [OSPF] [Isis-wg] Link-State Routing WG charter Jeff Tantsura
- Re: [OSPF] [Isis-wg] Link-State Routing WG charter Stewart Bryant
- Re: [OSPF] [Isis-wg] Link-State Routing WG charter Alia Atlas