Re: [p2pi] [tana] [tsv-area] TANA proposed charter
"Rolf Winter" <Rolf.Winter@nw.neclab.eu> Thu, 23 October 2008 03:52 UTC
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Thread-Topic: [tana] [tsv-area] TANA proposed charter
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References: <C524324B.132CE%rpenno@juniper.net> <48FEEFDB.6000801@tm.uka.de> <B8DDD0F9-ECC0-41D3-92AB-62F01682F003@icsi.berkeley.edu>
From: Rolf Winter <Rolf.Winter@nw.neclab.eu>
To: Nicholas Weaver <nweaver@ICSI.Berkeley.EDU>, Roland Bless <bless@tm.uka.de>
Cc: tsv-area@ietf.org, tana@ietf.org, p2pi@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [p2pi] [tana] [tsv-area] TANA proposed charter
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Nicholas, I think in your Email below you are asking the right questions. That said, this is probably not about the charter any more but already doing the work (and this is very good as the new version of the charter looks fine - to me at least). Rolf > -----Original Message----- > From: tana-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:tana-bounces@ietf.org] On > Behalf Of Nicholas Weaver > Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 12:25 AM > To: Roland Bless > Cc: p2pi@ietf.org; tsv-area@ietf.org; tana@ietf.org; Nicholas Weaver > Subject: Re: [tana] [tsv-area] TANA proposed charter > > > On Oct 22, 2008, at 2:18 AM, Roland Bless wrote: > >> I would like if possible to decouple the 'less than best > effort', as > >> in diffserv, from the algorithm per se. > >> > >> Besides, there are ISPs that are worried about the effect that P2P > >> have on other applications when the link is saturated, but > otherwise > >> they do not care. P2P would be treated like best effort in > >> non-saturated situations (a more ECN type approach). > > > > Yes, and that's exactly where LE helps: an ISP can be sure that LE > > traffic will not harm other BE traffic at any time. In case of > > congestion BE traffic will preempt LE traffic. If the link is not > > saturated, LE will be treated like BE. > > This is also roughly how Comcast is implementing fairness on their > network: Any user identified as being above a threshold of > usage (averaged over ~15 minutes) is placed into a lower QoS > category. And as long as there is at least some capacity > headroom left over, the heavy users aren't starved out, the > light users don't notice, and the heavy users traffic just > negotiates between itself. > > > However, this brings up a question: > > Should a scavenger service be true LE, if the network does > not support QoS? In such a case, the service can't yield > instantly anyway, so the question is what is the equilibrium > it goes to relative to other flows. > > Should it actually yield completely to other TCP flows on the network? > > Or should it instead have some equilibrium position thats a > stated fraction of what a normal TCP flow would achieve under > the circumstances? > > > EG, a "Scavenger App" has N flows, on a congested link shared > with a significant number of normal TCP flows. > > Given x is the equilibrium transfer rate of a single TCP flow. > > If the scavenger app's flows were normal TCP, the equilibrium > point in congestion with others would be Nx > > Should the goal be to have the equilibrium value be X? (No > matter the # of peers, the app behaves like a single TCP flow > for equilibrium > purposes) > > Should the goal be to have the equilibrium be some fraction > of X? Zero? _______________________________________________ p2pi mailing list p2pi@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/p2pi
- Re: [p2pi] [tana] [tsv-area] TANA proposed charter Reinaldo Penno
- Re: [p2pi] [tsv-area] TANA proposed charter Nicholas Weaver
- Re: [p2pi] [tsv-area] TANA proposed charter Stanislav Shalunov
- [p2pi] TANA proposed charter Stanislav Shalunov
- Re: [p2pi] [tsv-area] TANA proposed charter Lars Eggert
- Re: [p2pi] [tsv-area] TANA proposed charter Bruce Davie
- Re: [p2pi] [tsv-area] TANA proposed charter Joe Touch
- Re: [p2pi] [tana] [tsv-area] TANA proposed charter Marshall Eubanks
- Re: [p2pi] [tana] [tsv-area] TANA proposed charter Joe Touch
- Re: [p2pi] [tsv-area] TANA proposed charter Stanislav Shalunov
- Re: [p2pi] [tsv-area] TANA proposed charter Salman Abdul Baset
- Re: [p2pi] [tsv-area] TANA proposed charter Stanislav Shalunov
- Re: [p2pi] [tsv-area] TANA proposed charter Nicholas Weaver
- Re: [p2pi] [tsv-area] TANA proposed charter Stanislav Shalunov
- Re: [p2pi] [tana] [tsv-area] TANA proposed charter Narayanan, Vidya
- Re: [p2pi] [tana] [tsv-area] TANA proposed charter Nicholas Weaver
- Re: [p2pi] [tana] [tsv-area] TANA proposed charter Lars Eggert
- Re: [p2pi] [tana] [tsv-area] TANA proposed charter Narayanan, Vidya
- Re: [p2pi] [tana] [tsv-area] TANA proposed charter Narayanan, Vidya
- Re: [p2pi] TANA proposed charter Reinaldo Penno
- Re: [p2pi] [tana] [tsv-area] TANA proposed charter Narayanan, Vidya
- Re: [p2pi] [tana] [tsv-area] TANA proposed charter Narayanan, Vidya
- Re: [p2pi] TANA proposed charter Marshall Eubanks
- Re: [p2pi] [tana] [tsv-area] TANA proposed charter Nicholas Weaver
- Re: [p2pi] [tsv-area] TANA proposed charter Eddy, Wesley M. (GRC-RCN0)[VZ]
- Re: [p2pi] [tsv-area] TANA proposed charter Murari Sridharan
- Re: [p2pi] [tsv-area] TANA proposed charter Ted Faber
- Re: [p2pi] [tsv-area] TANA proposed charter Ted Faber
- Re: [p2pi] [tsv-area] TANA proposed charter Caitlin Bestler
- Re: [p2pi] [tana] [tsv-area] TANA proposed charter Ted Faber
- Re: [p2pi] [tsv-area] TANA proposed charter Das, Saumitra
- Re: [p2pi] [tsv-area] [tana] TANA proposed charter Das, Saumitra
- Re: [p2pi] [tana] [tsv-area] TANA proposed charter Stanislav Shalunov
- Re: [p2pi] [tana] [tsv-area] TANA proposed charter Rolf Winter
- Re: [p2pi] [tana] [tsv-area] TANA proposed charter Laird Popkin
- Re: [p2pi] [tana] [tsv-area] TANA proposed charter Salvatore Loreto
- Re: [p2pi] [tana] [tsv-area] TANA proposed charter Reinaldo Penno
- Re: [p2pi] [tana] [tsv-area] TANA proposed charter Rolf Winter
- Re: [p2pi] [tana] [tsv-area] TANA proposed charter Reinaldo Penno
- Re: [p2pi] [tana] [tsv-area] TANA proposed charter Rolf Winter
- Re: [p2pi] [tana] [tsv-area] TANA proposed charter Kurt Tutschku
- Re: [p2pi] [tana] [tsv-area] TANA proposed charter toby.moncaster
- Re: [p2pi] [tana] [tsv-area] TANA proposed charter Nicholas Weaver
- Re: [p2pi] [tsv-area] TANA proposed charter Ingemar Johansson S
- Re: [p2pi] [tana] [tsv-area] TANA proposed charter Michael Menth
- Re: [p2pi] [tana] [tsv-area] TANA proposed charter Michael Welzl
- Re: [p2pi] [tana] [tsv-area] TANA proposed charter Roland Bless
- Re: [p2pi] [tana] [tsv-area] TANA proposed charter Roland Bless
- Re: [p2pi] [tana] [tsv-area] TANA proposed charter Nicholas Weaver
- Re: [p2pi] [tana] [tsv-area] TANA proposed charter Marshall Eubanks
- Re: [p2pi] [tana] [tsv-area] TANA proposed charter Marshall Eubanks
- Re: [p2pi] [tana] TANA proposed charter Stanislav Shalunov
- Re: [p2pi] [tana] TANA proposed charter Laird Popkin
- Re: [p2pi] [tana] TANA proposed charter Enrico Marocco
- Re: [p2pi] [tana] [tsv-area] TANA proposed charter Rolf Winter
- Re: [p2pi] [tana] TANA proposed charter toby.moncaster
- Re: [p2pi] [tsv-area] TANA proposed charter toby.moncaster
- Re: [p2pi] [tana] [tsv-area] TANA proposed charter toby.moncaster
- Re: [p2pi] [tsv-area] TANA proposed charter Mark Allman
- Re: [p2pi] [tana] [tsv-area] TANA proposed charter Bryan Ford
- Re: [p2pi] [tana] TANA proposed charter Gorry Fairhurst
- Re: [p2pi] [tana] [tsv-area] TANA proposed charter Narayanan, Vidya
- [p2pi] TANA proposed charter -- packet marking qu… John Leslie
- Re: [p2pi] TANA proposed charter -- packet markin… Nicholas Weaver
- Re: [p2pi] TANA proposed charter -- packet markin… John Leslie
- Re: [p2pi] TANA proposed charter -- packet markin… Nicholas Weaver
- Re: [p2pi] TANA proposed charter Livingood, Jason
- Re: [p2pi] TANA proposed charter -- packet markin… Laird Popkin
- Re: [p2pi] [tana] TANA proposed charter -- packet… Woundy, Richard
- Re: [p2pi] TANA proposed charter -- packet markin… Stanislav Shalunov
- Re: [p2pi] TANA proposed charter -- packet markin… Robb Topolski
- Re: [p2pi] TANA proposed charter -- packet markin… Nicholas Weaver
- Re: [p2pi] TANA proposed charter -- packet markin… Bruce Davie
- Re: [p2pi] [tana] [tsv-area] TANA proposed charter Robb Topolski