Re: [p2pi] TANA proposed charter -- packet marking question

Laird Popkin <laird@pando.com> Fri, 24 October 2008 17:34 UTC

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Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 13:35:23 -0400 (EDT)
From: Laird Popkin <laird@pando.com>
To: Nicholas Weaver <nweaver@ICSI.Berkeley.EDU>
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Cc: Nicholas Weaver <nweaver@ICSI.Berkeley.EDU>, tana@ietf.org, p2pi@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [p2pi] TANA proposed charter -- packet marking question
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My understanding from talking with some vendors of home routers is that if there were a standard for proper behavior in this area, they would be happy to conform to it. But if there's not a standard, it's hard for them to get engineers and sub-vendors to implement "be smart".

- Laird Popkin, CTO, Pando Networks
  mobile: 646/465-0570

----- Original Message -----
From: "Nicholas Weaver" <nweaver@ICSI.Berkeley.EDU>
To: "John Leslie" <john@jlc.net>
Cc: p2pi@ietf.org, tana@ietf.org, "Nicholas Weaver" <nweaver@ICSI.Berkeley.EDU>
Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 1:24:49 PM (GMT-0500) America/New_York
Subject: Re: [p2pi] TANA proposed charter -- packet marking question


On Oct 24, 2008, at 9:12 AM, John Leslie wrote:
>>
>>
>> I start a full rate, SINGLE TCP flow to this remote system.  The ping
>> time jumps up to 3 seconds!  Yes, the stupid NAT box or DSL modem  
>> (not
>> sure which at this moment) has a 3 second packet buffer, and simple
>> FIFO behavior.  Any full rate upload and I can kiss my connection
>> goodbye.  Period.  End of story.  Have a nice day.
>
>   Fortunately, the Linksys _could_ be easily programmed to fix that --
> and if the problem becomes obvious enough to enough buyers, the
> competition will fix it...

I disagree.

I've had DSL or cable modem connectivity for damn-near a decade now.   
And fixing it is easy: the data rates are trivial, the devices are  
often programmable, and the solution straightforward: just have only  
30ms of packet buffer, not 3s.  Yet these devices STILL have this  
problem.

And the only reason that as a clued user it would be fixable if its  
the Linksys box is I DELIBERATELY purchased the version where I can  
replace the firmware to fix something the vendors refused to fix for  
themselves.  And I just unplugged the linksys: its the DSL modem,  
purchased within the past 2.5 years.

(The reason its not a problem for me is I don't use P2P apps, and only  
rarely upload large quantities of photos)

So I think the conclusion should be there has been a market failure in  
this area, and that absent a miracle, this problem will remain.

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