Re: [p2pi] ALTO Information Export Service
Salman Abdul Baset <sa2086@columbia.edu> Wed, 29 October 2008 04:05 UTC
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Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 00:05:44 -0400
From: Salman Abdul Baset <sa2086@columbia.edu>
To: Reinaldo Penno <rpenno@juniper.net>
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Cc: p2pi@ietf.org, "Woundy, Richard" <Richard_Woundy@cable.comcast.com>
Subject: Re: [p2pi] ALTO Information Export Service
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Mapping IP addresses to AS numbers by quering RIRs: http://www.bugest.net/software/aslookup/index-e.html -s On Tue, 28 Oct 2008, Reinaldo Penno wrote: > I agree with you Rich. Getting an accurate mapping of IP to 'owner' ASs is > not an easy task. Some people spent a lot of time on this. I did not know > this presentation. > > Here is a another very good reference: > > Towards an Accurate AS-Level Traceroute Tool > Zhuoqing Morley Mao Jennifer Rexford Jia Wang Randy H. Katz > UC Berkeley AT&T LabsResearch AT&T LabsResearch UC Berkeley > zmao@cs.berkeley.edu jrex@research.att.com jiawang@research.att.com > randy@cs.berkeley.edu > > In this paper they discuss in detail all the roadblocks to have a traceroute > tool that maps IP to ASs. > > Thanks, > > Reinaldo > > > On 10/28/08 4:00 PM, "Woundy, Richard" <Richard_Woundy@cable.comcast.com> > wrote: > >>> The routing view which actually matters is the view of the ISP router >> which dispatches the particular packet at a peering point. Thus, IMHO, >> the ISP should usually be the provider of the mapping of IPs to ASNs. >> >> Before this email, my opinion was that if an ISP wanted to include >> ASN(s) in the policy to be returned by the ALTO service, then the ISP >> should also supply the IP prefix to ASN mappings, so that the combined >> ALTO service guidance came from a consistent information source (the >> ISP). But I didn't have a strong opinion against using a looking glass >> server instead for the IP-to-ASN mappings. >> >> If I understood John correctly, the looking glass server's view of >> IP-to-ASN mappings may depend on the server's location in the Internet >> topology, and that view may not be equivalent to the view of the ISP >> providing the ALTO service. >> >> Here is one example: Within one ISP's backbone, there may be a set of >> specific IPv4 prefixes coming from many origin AS's. Within another >> ISP's backbone, these specific prefixes may have been replaced (and >> subsumed) by a single aggregate prefix with a different origin AS (e.g. >> the first backbone). Therefore, the looking glass servers for the first >> and second backbones would differ on the correct origin AS with respect >> to this aggregated prefix. >> >> Here is a relevant RIPE presentation (from 2003) in which they faced >> similar problems with reporting ASNs in traceroutes: >> http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-46/presentations/ripe46-tt-as-tra >> ceroutes.pdf. In the scenario of the RIPE presentation, the route >> information in the Internet Routing Registries and in the global BGP >> routes were often at odds with one another; slides 8, 10, and 11 >> describe some interesting cases that relate to this discussion about >> looking glasses. >> >> John, in short, I think you make a very good point. >> >> -- Rich >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: p2pi-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:p2pi-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of >> John Leslie >> Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 1:23 PM >> To: Stanislav Shalunov >> Cc: p2pi@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: [p2pi] ALTO Information Export Service >> >> Stanislav Shalunov <shalunov@shlang.com> wrote: >>> >>> We put together a first iteration of a very simple ALTO solution >>> draft. We hope this will be useful as an example point in the >>> solutions space and thus allow to refine the requirements document and >> >>> the problem statement. >>> >>> >> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-shalunov-alto-infoexport-00.tx >> t >> ] ... >> ] 7. Mapping IPs to ASNs >> >> I expect ISPs will sometimes mean different things by "preferring" >> ASNs. (This is a pretty generic problem with ASNs in ALTO.) >> >> ISPs generally peer with a limited number of ASNs, and reach IPs >> "owned" by other ASNs through routes from the ASNs they directly peer >> with. >> >> What actually causes an ISP to "prefer" a set of IPs is knowing that >> they will use a route to them through a particular AS they peer with. >> This is _not_ the same as which AS "owns" the IP in question. (Nor is >> "owned by an AS" necessarily a meaningful statement for a CIDR block.) >> >> BGP looking-glass views show which ASNs "originate" routes to a >> CIDR block. It is not particularly unusual to find more than one AS >> "originating" such a route. Thus, looking-glass results cannot assure >> that the route a packet will actually follow to reach an IP address >> _ever_ passes through a particular AS. >> >> Looking-glass views _will_ generally show "holes" punched in CIDR >> blocks "owned" by one AS for the purpose of balancing traffic to a >> multihomed customer of that AS (even though it may be that _none_ of >> the traffic will actually pass through the "owner" AS). But looking- >> glass views tend to contain routes that are never seen by routers >> not "near the backbone". >> >> The routing view which actually matters is the view of the ISP >> router which dispatches the particular packet at a peering point. >> Thus, IMHO, the ISP should usually be the provider of the mapping of >> IPs to ASNs. >> >> (This mapping may change several times per second when routes >> "flap", but that's a balancing act the ISP is best able to attempt.) >> >> In any case, if ALTO provides ASN "preferences" at all we should >> provide a mechanism for the ISP to perform mapping of IP to ASN. >> (IMHO, at least...) >> >> -- >> John Leslie <john@jlc.net> >> _______________________________________________ >> p2pi mailing list >> p2pi@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/p2pi >> _______________________________________________ >> p2pi mailing list >> p2pi@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/p2pi > > _______________________________________________ > p2pi mailing list > p2pi@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/p2pi > >
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- Re: [p2pi] ALTO Information Export Service Laird Popkin
- Re: [p2pi] ALTO Information Export Service stefano previdi
- Re: [p2pi] ALTO Information Export Service John Leslie
- [p2pi] ALTO Information Export Service Stanislav Shalunov
- Re: [p2pi] ALTO Information Export Service John Leslie
- Re: [p2pi] ALTO Information Export Service Woundy, Richard
- Re: [p2pi] ALTO Information Export Service Reinaldo Penno
- Re: [p2pi] ALTO Information Export Service Salman Abdul Baset
- Re: [p2pi] ALTO Information Export Service Reinaldo Penno
- Re: [p2pi] ALTO Information Export Service stefano previdi
- Re: [p2pi] ALTO Information Export Service Laird Popkin
- Re: [p2pi] ALTO Information Export Service Reinaldo Penno
- Re: [p2pi] ALTO Information Export Service John Leslie
- Re: [p2pi] ALTO Information Export Service Laird Popkin