Re: [p2pi] Refining the ALTO problem statement [Was: Re: discussing P2PI-related standardization in Dublin]
Henning Schulzrinne <hgs@cs.columbia.edu> Wed, 18 June 2008 02:29 UTC
Return-Path: <p2pi-bounces@ietf.org>
X-Original-To: p2pi-archive@ietf.org
Delivered-To: ietfarch-p2pi-archive@core3.amsl.com
Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7ABF63A68ED; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 19:29:08 -0700 (PDT)
X-Original-To: p2pi@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: p2pi@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0EDF3A68ED for <p2pi@core3.amsl.com>; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 19:29:07 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -3.475
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.475 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.124, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id etytKe1yci7L for <p2pi@core3.amsl.com>; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 19:29:06 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from serrano.cc.columbia.edu (serrano.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.29.6]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92C8D3A68E8 for <p2pi@ietf.org>; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 19:29:06 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from [192.168.0.61] (pool-71-250-62-209.nwrknj.east.verizon.net [71.250.62.209]) (user=hgs10 mech=PLAIN bits=0) by serrano.cc.columbia.edu (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id m5I2TlXk026694 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Tue, 17 Jun 2008 22:29:48 -0400 (EDT)
Message-Id: <D1435946-50BF-4472-A8B4-5233E9430781@cs.columbia.edu>
From: Henning Schulzrinne <hgs@cs.columbia.edu>
To: Lars Eggert <lars.eggert@nokia.com>
In-Reply-To: <3083CE1C-A219-4DB6-BAEC-E74DC3FD9C46@nokia.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v924)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 22:29:46 -0400
References: <22F6A875-B548-4C65-AB68-B88E526CCA33@nokia.com> <6E1603B0-7116-45F9-A510-DC5F9040298B@nokia.com> <C80ADC57CB3BB64B94A9954A816306C50C323F@STNTEXCH11.cis.neustar.com> <48516BE2.2080901@telecomitalia.it> <A8AE7698-69ED-47AF-94D1-29AA4F60B7C8@nokia.com> <48541F91.1010306@telecomitalia.it> <3083CE1C-A219-4DB6-BAEC-E74DC3FD9C46@nokia.com>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.924)
X-No-Spam-Score: Local
X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.63 on 128.59.29.6
Cc: "p2pi@ietf.org" <p2pi@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [p2pi] Refining the ALTO problem statement [Was: Re: discussing P2PI-related standardization in Dublin]
X-BeenThere: p2pi@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
List-Id: P2P Infrastructure Discussion <p2pi.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/p2pi>, <mailto:p2pi-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/pipermail/p2pi>
List-Post: <mailto:p2pi@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:p2pi-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/p2pi>, <mailto:p2pi-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: p2pi-bounces@ietf.org
Errors-To: p2pi-bounces@ietf.org
>> >> the RSVP TSpec. Alternatively, a protocol such as GIST could >> discover >> the cost of particular destination. The service classes may change >> over time. For example, a network may offer "midnight specials" when >> the network is idle during off-hours, encouraging bulk downloads >> during that time. > > thanks - that does make it clearer. I agree that it's interesting to > think through the possibilities here, but I don't see anything we > could immediately think about standardizing here. > I do see a need for standardization here, namely conveying the current bandwidth price or total usage. (More complicated models are feasible, but I think something pretty simple would do the job and avoid getting into business models.) You'd want to get something like "Your current charge for priority X is Y currency units/byte, valid until time T." "You have used B bytes out of L bytes for priority X." "Your max. rate for priority X is S bits/second." This covers the major knobs that a provider can turn (quotas, rate limits and metering). > That is definitely possible. For example, low-RTT peers may be behind > other DSL boxes within your ISP, whereas the university with the big > pipe is a bit further away in RTT terms than those peers - who'd you > like to transfer from? I'd expect the correlation between RTT and > transmission time to be pretty weak (but have no data to back this > up.) Given that TCP throughput is inversely proportional to RTT, one would indeed expect a correlation. See http://www.slac.stanford.edu/comp/net/wan-mon/thru-vs-loss.html for a random related page. Obviously, capacity matters where a single flow is likely to occupy the whole pipe. Henning > > > Lars > _______________________________________________ > p2pi mailing list > p2pi@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/p2pi _______________________________________________ p2pi mailing list p2pi@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/p2pi
- [p2pi] discussing P2PI-related standardization in… Lars Eggert
- Re: [p2pi] discussing P2PI-related standardizatio… Lars Eggert
- Re: [p2pi] discussing P2PI-related standardizatio… Vijay K. Gurbani
- Re: [p2pi] discussing P2PI-related standardizatio… Peterson, Jon
- Re: [p2pi] discussing P2PI-related standardizatio… Livingood, Jason
- [p2pi] Refining the ALTO problem statement [Was: … Enrico Marocco
- Re: [p2pi] Refining the ALTO problem statement [W… stefano previdi
- Re: [p2pi] Refining the ALTO problem statement [W… John Leslie
- Re: [p2pi] Refining the ALTO problem statement [W… Vijay K. Gurbani
- Re: [p2pi] Refining the ALTO problem statement [W… Lars Eggert
- Re: [p2pi] Refining the ALTO problem statement [W… Lars Eggert
- Re: [p2pi] discussing P2PI-related standardizatio… Lars Eggert
- Re: [p2pi] Refining the ALTO problem statement [W… Enrico Marocco
- Re: [p2pi] Refining the ALTO problem statement John Leslie
- Re: [p2pi] discussing P2PI-related standardizatio… Richard Bennett
- Re: [p2pi] discussing P2PI-related standardizatio… Lars Eggert
- Re: [p2pi] Refining the ALTO problem statement [W… Lars Eggert
- Re: [p2pi] Refining the ALTO problem statement Lars Eggert
- Re: [p2pi] Refining the ALTO problem statement [W… stefano previdi
- Re: [p2pi] Refining the ALTO problem statement Spencer Dawkins
- Re: [p2pi] Refining the ALTO problem statement John Leslie
- Re: [p2pi] Refining the ALTO problem statement John Leslie
- Re: [p2pi] Refining the ALTO problem statement Spencer Dawkins
- Re: [p2pi] Refining the ALTO problem statement [W… Henning Schulzrinne
- Re: [p2pi] Refining the ALTO problem statement [W… Stanislav Shalunov
- Re: [p2pi] Refining the ALTO problem statement [W… Lars Eggert
- Re: [p2pi] Refining the ALTO problem statement Lars Eggert
- Re: [p2pi] Refining the ALTO problem statement Spencer Dawkins
- Re: [p2pi] Refining the ALTO problem statement John Leslie
- Re: [p2pi] Refining the ALTO problem statement Robert Snively
- Re: [p2pi] Refining the ALTO problem statement Stanislav Shalunov
- Re: [p2pi] Refining the ALTO problem statement Laird Popkin
- Re: [p2pi] Refining the ALTO problem statement stefano previdi
- Re: [p2pi] Refining the ALTO problem statement Stanislav Shalunov
- Re: [p2pi] Refining the ALTO problem statement Lars Eggert