Re: [P2PSIP] HIP: optional, mandatory?
David Barrett <dbarrett@quinthar.com> Fri, 11 January 2008 04:24 UTC
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From: David Barrett <dbarrett@quinthar.com>
To: Cullen Jennings <fluffy@cisco.com>
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Subject: Re: [P2PSIP] HIP: optional, mandatory?
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 09:53:59 +0530
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We don't need more options for what we CAN do, we need decisions on what we WILL do. If we're not considering making HIP mandatory, then let's stop talking about it and start focusing on those things that *will* be mandatory. That said, I think this HIP discussion is the best thing to happen in P2PSIP for years. It seems like the most practical and powerful solution, the best layering of functionality, and the most feasible design that I've yet to hear. Moving the hard P2P code into a reusable HIP layer makes a lot of sense, not only for P2PSIP, but for the internet as a whole. It seems like a wagon that we should voluntarily and enthusiastically hitch ourselves to, rather than try to reproduce or compete with it, or toss it in the overflowing bucket of optional extensions. It seems sensible to have a base HIP layer that either comes pre- installed with the OS or redistributed by the application (similar to WinPCap). (I could even see making a sort of "HIP-lite" self- contained library that can be linked straight into the application for when installing a Then P2PSIP can be one of many HIP-using applications that are vastly simplified by being insulated from the gnarly realities of NAT and firewall penetration, mobility, etc. This makes a lot more sense than continually reproducing this really hard functionality in every application. -david On Jan 11, 2008, at 7:33 AM, Cullen Jennings wrote: > > I was assuming most folks were talking about (3) given that much of > HIP is still being designed and it will be awhile to get things > build and deployed. I know lots of parts of HIP have been done but > when we are talking about mobility, nat traversal, no DNS, and easy > end user installations, there is still work. Anyway, I am in the 3 > category. > > Cullen <with my individual hat on> > On Jan 10, 2008, at 2:14 PM, Henning Schulzrinne wrote: > >> One of the issues I don't understand about this discussion is >> whether all instances of P2PSIP would be expected to be running HIP >> or just some. There seem to be at least three options: >> >> (1) Mandatory to implement and run >> >> The only non-recursive-dependency model seems to be that peer nodes >> would store the HIT-IP bindings in their routing tables. (This >> largely negates any mobility advantages, but that's a separate >> discussion.) >> >> (2) Mandatory to implement, but there can be instances of an >> overlay (or maybe even part of an overlay) that don't use HIP >> >> This would require providing ICE functionality at both the HIP >> level and directly to the P2P protocol. >> >> (3) Optional to implement and run >> >> This only works if you can have mixed HIP-non-HIP nodes. Also >> requires implementations of ICE in both layers and the ability to >> mix-and-match HIP and non-HIP nodes within an overlay, unless each >> overlay has a "HIP flag". >> >> I admit that I'm rather worried about the complexity of this whole >> edifice. I think it would be helpful if the proponents of a HIP- >> based approach stated clearly which of these they have in mind. >> >> Henning >> >> _______________________________________________ >> P2PSIP mailing list >> P2PSIP@ietf.org >> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/p2psip > _______________________________________________ > P2PSIP mailing list > P2PSIP@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/p2psip > _______________________________________________ P2PSIP mailing list P2PSIP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/p2psip
- [P2PSIP] New draft: HIP BONE Gonzalo Camarillo
- Re: [P2PSIP] New draft: HIP BONE Bruce Lowekamp
- Re: [P2PSIP] New draft: HIP BONE Salman Abdul Baset
- Re: [P2PSIP] New draft: HIP BONE Pekka Nikander
- Re: [P2PSIP] New draft: HIP BONE Pekka Nikander
- [P2PSIP] HIP-P2P-SIP message flow examples Henry Sinnreich
- Re: [P2PSIP] New draft: HIP BONE Gonzalo Camarillo
- Re: [P2PSIP] New draft: HIP BONE Gonzalo Camarillo
- RE: [P2PSIP] New draft: HIP BONE Henry Sinnreich
- Re: [P2PSIP] New draft: HIP BONE Gonzalo Camarillo
- Re: [P2PSIP] New draft: HIP BONE Ali Fessi
- Re: [P2PSIP] New draft: HIP BONE Gonzalo Camarillo
- [P2PSIP] Resolving SIP URIs with HIP Ali Fessi
- [P2PSIP] a modular approach for integrating HIP f… Ali Fessi
- RE: [P2PSIP] New draft: HIP BONE Henderson, Thomas R
- Re: [P2PSIP] New draft: HIP BONE Pekka Nikander
- RE: [P2PSIP] a modular approach for integrating H… Henderson, Thomas R
- RE: [P2PSIP] New draft: HIP BONE Henderson, Thomas R
- [P2PSIP] Re: a modular approach for integrating H… Gonzalo Camarillo
- Re: [P2PSIP] Re: a modular approach for integrati… Miika Komu
- Re: [P2PSIP] New draft: HIP BONE Bruce Lowekamp
- RE: [P2PSIP] New draft: HIP BONE Henderson, Thomas R
- Re: [P2PSIP] New draft: HIP BONE Bruce Lowekamp
- RE: [P2PSIP] New draft: HIP BONE Henry Sinnreich
- Re: [P2PSIP] New draft: HIP BONE Spencer Dawkins
- Re: [P2PSIP] New draft: HIP BONE Ali Fessi
- RE: [P2PSIP] New draft: HIP BONE Henderson, Thomas R
- Re: [P2PSIP] New draft: HIP BONE Pekka Nikander
- Re: [P2PSIP] New draft: HIP BONE Pekka Nikander
- Re: [P2PSIP] New draft: HIP BONE Pekka Nikander
- Re: [P2PSIP] New draft: HIP BONE Pekka Nikander
- Re: [P2PSIP] New draft: HIP BONE Bruce Lowekamp
- RE: [P2PSIP] New draft: HIP BONE Henderson, Thomas R
- Re: [P2PSIP] HIP: optional, mandatory? Henning Schulzrinne
- Re: [P2PSIP] New draft: HIP BONE Spencer Dawkins
- Re: [P2PSIP] New draft: HIP BONE Spencer Dawkins
- Re: [P2PSIP] New draft: HIP BONE Spencer Dawkins
- Re: [P2PSIP] HIP: optional, mandatory? Bruce Lowekamp
- Re: [P2PSIP] HIP: optional, mandatory? Henning Schulzrinne
- Re: [P2PSIP] HIP: optional, mandatory? Bruce Lowekamp
- Re: [P2PSIP] HIP: optional, mandatory? Cullen Jennings
- Re: [P2PSIP] HIP: optional, mandatory? Spencer Dawkins
- Re: [P2PSIP] HIP: optional, mandatory? Henning Schulzrinne
- Re: [P2PSIP] HIP: optional, mandatory? David Barrett
- Re: [P2PSIP] New draft: HIP BONE Pekka Nikander
- Re: [P2PSIP] New draft: HIP BONE Spencer Dawkins
- Re: [P2PSIP] HIP: optional, mandatory? David A. Bryan
- Re: [P2PSIP] HIP: optional, mandatory? Spencer Dawkins
- Re: [P2PSIP] HIP: optional, mandatory? David A. Bryan
- Re: [P2PSIP] HIP: optional, mandatory? David A. Bryan
- Re: [P2PSIP] New draft: HIP BONE Ali Fessi
- Re: [P2PSIP] HIP: optional, mandatory? Henning Schulzrinne
- Re: [P2PSIP] HIP: optional, mandatory? Cullen Jennings
- Re: [P2PSIP] HIP: optional, mandatory? David A. Bryan
- Re: [P2PSIP] HIP: optional, mandatory? Roy, Radhika R Dr CTR USA USAMC
- Re: [P2PSIP] New draft: HIP BONE Pekka Nikander
- Re: [P2PSIP] New draft: HIP BONE Pekka Nikander
- Re: [P2PSIP] New draft: HIP BONE Pekka Nikander
- RE: [P2PSIP] HIP: optional, mandatory? Henry Sinnreich
- Re: RE: [P2PSIP] HIP: optional, mandatory? Roy, Radhika R Dr CTR USA USAMC
- RE: RE: [P2PSIP] HIP: optional, mandatory? Henry Sinnreich
- Re: [P2PSIP] HIP: optional, mandatory? Gonzalo Camarillo
- RE: [P2PSIP] HIP: optional, mandatory? Henry Sinnreich
- Re: [P2PSIP] HIP: optional, mandatory? Roy, Radhika R Dr CTR USA USAMC
- RE: [P2PSIP] HIP: optional, mandatory? JiangXingFeng
- RE: [P2PSIP] HIP: optional, mandatory? Oredope, Adetola
- Re: [P2PSIP] HIP: optional, mandatory? David Barrett
- RE: [P2PSIP] HIP: optional, mandatory? Henry Sinnreich
- RE: [P2PSIP] HIP: optional, mandatory? marcin.matuszewski
- Re: [P2PSIP] HIP: optional, mandatory? Erkki Harjula
- Re: RE: [P2PSIP] HIP: optional, mandatory? Roy, Radhika R Dr CTR USA USAMC
- RE: [P2PSIP] HIP: optional, mandatory? Henry Sinnreich
- Re: [P2PSIP] HIP: optional, mandatory? Enrico Marocco
- RE: [P2PSIP] HIP: optional, mandatory? marcin.matuszewski
- RE: RE: [P2PSIP] HIP: optional, mandatory? marcin.matuszewski
- Re: [P2PSIP] HIP: optional, mandatory? Henning Schulzrinne
- Re: [P2PSIP] HIP: optional, mandatory? Enrico Marocco
- Re: RE: RE: [P2PSIP] HIP: optional, mandatory? Roy, Radhika R Dr CTR USA USAMC
- RE: [P2PSIP] HIP: optional, mandatory? marcin.matuszewski
- RE: [P2PSIP] HIP: optional, mandatory? Henry Sinnreich
- Re: [P2PSIP] HIP: optional, mandatory? Erkki Harjula
- RE: [P2PSIP] HIP: optional, mandatory? Henry Sinnreich
- RE: [P2PSIP] HIP: optional, mandatory? marcin.matuszewski
- RE: RE: RE: [P2PSIP] HIP: optional, mandatory? marcin.matuszewski
- RE: [P2PSIP] HIP: optional, mandatory? Roy, Radhika R Dr CTR USA USAMC