Re: [Panic] Scope Draft is Available

Jessica Fitzgerald-McKay <jmfmckay@gmail.com> Mon, 26 June 2017 19:08 UTC

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From: Jessica Fitzgerald-McKay <jmfmckay@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2017 15:08:04 -0400
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To: Robert Moskowitz <rgm-sec@htt-consult.com>
Cc: "Waltermire, David A. (Fed)" <david.waltermire@nist.gov>, "Panic@ietf.org" <Panic@ietf.org>, "Panos Kampanakis (pkampana)" <pkampana@cisco.com>, "Diego R. Lopez" <diego.r.lopez@telefonica.com>
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Subject: Re: [Panic] Scope Draft is Available
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Completely hear you, Bob. Thanks for finding the time for feedback, we (and
all the other authors/editors whose work you are reviewing) appreciate it!

On Mon, Jun 26, 2017 at 2:57 PM, Robert Moskowitz <rgm-sec@htt-consult.com>;
wrote:

> Jessica,
>
> Thanksfor updating the draft.  I will give it a read.  Along with dozen
> others I have to get done!  :)
>
> Deadlines.  You have to love 'em.
>
> Bob
>
>
>
> On 06/26/2017 10:47 AM, Jessica Fitzgerald-McKay wrote:
>
> All,
> I have posted an updated draft scope here:  https://datatracker.ietf.org/
> doc/html/draft-waltermire-panic-scope-02.
>
> I think we have addressed most of the issues brought up on list. I do not
> feel I adequately addressed making NAT out of scope (per Daniel's request)
> and would like some help on that.
>
> Bob, to your questions on the relationship between our work and netconf, I
> think that we could best focus our time on extending YANG to meet the
> requirements we derive from this scoping statement. So, I stated that
> explicitly in this draft. I'd like to get feedback from the group on that
> approach, so please chime in if you like/dislike/love/loathe that idea.
>
> Thanks,
> Jess
>
> On Fri, Jun 16, 2017 at 3:11 PM, Waltermire, David A. (Fed) <
> david.waltermire@nist.gov>; wrote:
>
>> Hi Bob,
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks for asking. We have been working on an update. We hope to post it
>> soon addressing the feedback we have received so far, including addressing
>> the comments from your other email today.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Dave
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Robert Moskowitz [mailto:rgm-sec@htt-consult.com]
>> *Sent:* Thursday, June 15, 2017 4:38 PM
>> *To:* Waltermire, David A. (Fed) <david.waltermire@nist.gov>;; Diego R.
>> Lopez <diego.r.lopez@telefonica.com>;
>>
>> *Cc:* Panic@ietf.org; Panos Kampanakis (pkampana) <pkampana@cisco.com>;
>> *Subject:* Re: [Panic] Scope Draft is Available
>>
>>
>>
>> David,
>>
>> Do you have an update to your draft?
>>
>> I don't see anything past the Apr 11 01.txt draft.
>>
>> thanks
>>
>> On 05/19/2017 10:09 AM, Waltermire, David A. (Fed) wrote:
>>
>> Diego, thanks for the edits.
>>
>>
>>
>> All,
>>
>>
>> I am going to drop this text into an update of the scope draft. I’ll wait
>> until Monday to work on posting the draft update. Please let me know if any
>> other changes to the draft are desired.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Dave
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Panic [mailto:panic-bounces@ietf.org <panic-bounces@ietf.org>] *On
>> Behalf Of *Diego R. Lopez
>> *Sent:* Friday, May 19, 2017 2:23 AM
>> *To:* Waltermire, David A. (Fed) <david.waltermire@nist.gov>;
>> <david.waltermire@nist.gov>;
>> *Cc:* Panic@ietf.org; Panos Kampanakis (pkampana) <pkampana@cisco.com>;
>> <pkampana@cisco.com>;
>> *Subject:* Re: [Panic] Scope Draft is Available
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>>
>>
>> I agree with David’s proposal, with just a few minor changes with respect
>> to the original text, to make it more general, completely covering the
>> virtual cases (NFV) and eliminating the term “device” to avoid too many
>> equivalences...
>>
>>
>>
>> Network operators need to know what is connected to their organization's
>> networks so that they can properly manage those network elements. Managing
>> these network endpoints, consisting of physical and virtual network
>> infrastructure, requires access to information pertaining to them,
>> including endpoint identity, the identity of software installed on the
>> element, and the configuration setting values for the installed software.
>> This information can be collected from different classes of elements over
>> different protocols and using different data models. PANIC will identify a
>> standardized solution to collect posture information for network element,
>> and allow that information to be shared with authorized users and elements
>> on the network supporting security automation. PANIC aims to reuse
>> available standards for posture assessment where possible. The PANIC effort
>> will avoid redefining information exchange technologies for use cases that
>> have already been defined.
>>
>>
>>
>> Be goode,
>>
>>
>>
>> On 18 May 2017, at 20:01 , Waltermire, David A. (Fed) <
>> david.waltermire@nist.gov>; wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Panos, thanks for providing text.
>>
>> We have participants that are approaching this problem space that are
>> accustomed to using endpoint and network element. How about the following
>> introduction text to draw an equivalence between these terms?
>>
>> Network operators need to know what is connected to their organization's
>> networks so that they can properly manage those network elements. Managing
>> these network elements, consisting of physical and virtual network
>> infrastructure devices, requires access to information pertaining to these
>> endpoint devices, including device identity, the identity of software
>> installed on the endpoint, and the configuration setting values for the
>> installed software. This information can be collected from different
>> classes of endpoints over different protocols and using different data
>> models. PANIC will identify a standardized solution to collect posture
>> information for network devices, and allow that information to be shared
>> with authorized users and devices on the network supporting security
>> automation. PANIC aims to reuse available standards for posture assessment
>> where possible. The PANIC effort will avoid redefining information exchange
>> technologies for use cases that have already been defi
>> ned.
>>
>> Also, I added your text to the security considerations section. I will
>> post this in the -02 revision once we sort out the Introduction.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Dave
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Panos Kampanakis (pkampana) [mailto:pkampana@cisco.com
>> <pkampana@cisco.com>]
>> Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2017 12:30 PM
>> To: Waltermire, David A. (Fed) <david.waltermire@nist.gov>;;
>> Panic@ietf.org
>> Subject: RE: Scope Draft is Available
>>
>> ACK. Below some proposed text:
>>
>> For the Security Considerations Section:
>>   Further discussion here will address the threat introduced to the
>> network
>> elements by the posture information collection. There should be
>> protections
>> implemented to prevent the element from being vulnerable to DoS attacks
>> by frequent polling or pushing of posture data.
>>
>> For the Introduction Section:
>>   ...automation. PANIC aims to reuse available standards for posture
>> assessment where possible. It will avoid redefining info exchange
>> technologies for usecases that have already been defined.
>>
>> For the Introduction Section:
>>   ...manage those
>>   endpoints. Endpoints / Elements include hardware, software of virtual
>> network infrastructure devices.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> hardware, software or virtual (NFV fails in this
>>
>>
>> category)
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Waltermire, David A. (Fed) [mailto:david.waltermire@nist.gov
>> <david.waltermire@nist.gov>]
>> Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2017 10:59 AM
>> To: Panos Kampanakis (pkampana) <pkampana@cisco.com>;; Panic@ietf.org
>> Subject: RE: Scope Draft is Available
>>
>> Panos,
>>
>> Thank you for providing feedback on the PANIC scope draft.
>>
>> Comments are inline below.
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Panos Kampanakis (pkampana) [mailto:pkampana@cisco.com
>> <pkampana@cisco.com>]
>> Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2017 10:37 AM
>> To: Waltermire, David A. (Fed) <david.waltermire@nist.gov>;;
>> Panic@ietf.org
>> Subject: RE: Scope Draft is Available
>>
>> Hi David,
>>
>> The document is clear.
>>
>> One semantic objection I have is about the use of the word endpoint. I
>> believe the term is commonly used for user machines (laptops, cells,
>> tablets) . Network element or element is a little clearer.
>>
>>
>> I don't have a dog in this fight. I am happy to go either way (e.g.,
>> endpoint,
>> network element) if there is a preference in the group for one term or the
>> other. I'd like to hear other opinions on this.
>>
>>
>>
>> A susggestion: The security section could mention the importance of
>> not introducing security concerns with the posture info collection.
>> For example a device should not be DoSable by too many polls, or it
>> should not push often enough that would introduce performance concerns
>>
>> etc.
>>
>> I think this is a good idea. Do you have some text in mind to drop in?
>>
>>
>>
>> I think it will also be beneficial to be explicit about the types of
>> network elements. In the broad technologies that exist today, these
>> elements could be hardware, software or virtual (NFV fails in this
>> category). All of those should be in scope for this work.
>>
>>
>> All of these are in scope in my view.
>>
>>
>>
>> Side comment: I would like this standardization effort to try to reuse
>> data formats and transports wherever possible and not come up with new
>> posture information descriptions. I think this is a common goal that
>> SACM has as well.
>>
>>
>> I share this goal as well. Should we document this in the draft?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Panos
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>> Dave
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Panic [mailto:panic-bounces@ietf.org <panic-bounces@ietf.org>] On
>> Behalf Of Waltermire,
>> David A. (Fed)
>> Sent: Monday, May 15, 2017 11:03 AM
>> To: Panic@ietf.org
>> Subject: [Panic] Scope Draft is Available
>>
>> Welcome to the posture assessment through network information
>> collection
>> (PANIC) email list. At the side meeting on March 29th, we started
>> discussing the problem of how to measure the health of network
>> devices. We discussed the need to collect posture information from
>> network devices to support asset, software, vulnerability, and
>> configuration management use cases. We were asked by the group to
>> share a more detailed description of the intended scope for the PANIC
>> effort. The follow draft is an attempt to do
>> so:
>>
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-waltermire-panic-scope/
>>
>> We would appreciate review of and comments on this draft. At this
>> point, we want to know if the this scope clearly defines the problem to be
>>
>> solved.
>>
>>
>> Please let us know if you have any questions or concerns, or if you
>> think the scope draft is adequate.
>>
>> Regards,
>> David Waltermire
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Panic mailing list
>> Panic@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/panic
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Panic mailing list
>> Panic@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/panic
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> "Esta vez no fallaremos, Doctor Infierno"
>>
>> Dr Diego R. Lopez
>> Telefonica I+D
>> http://people.tid.es/diego.lopez/
>>
>> e-mail: diego.r.lopez@telefonica.com
>> Tel:    +34 913 129 041
>> Mobile: +34 682 051 091
>> ----------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>>
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