[PANRG] Updated text on ECN: draft-irtf-panrg-what-not-to-do-19 to be ...
Spencer Dawkins at IETF <spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com> Mon, 22 March 2021 18:04 UTC
Return-Path: <spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: panrg@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: panrg@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82CD73A0FCA; Mon, 22 Mar 2021 11:04:22 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -0.198
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.198 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id r-3OLko0Sgjq; Mon, 22 Mar 2021 11:04:18 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-yb1-xb2c.google.com (mail-yb1-xb2c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::b2c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D3ED23A0FC7; Mon, 22 Mar 2021 11:04:17 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-yb1-xb2c.google.com with SMTP id j2so7530135ybj.8; Mon, 22 Mar 2021 11:04:17 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=b4IFriEpSi9cIhIl7JHS8SQXJ8NA3mNUnAW0QPhlS08=; b=MT1IfqYctnAJWEtlHYCgRa/l3gJY8GN/c0KPfa0qKrfnW1SL5lY13r0v5Z9tCgbsKA /P6QSlVS9tt14jzXE4kHwHVjkRNMQK2aUkrZjGq9fHLUzFMWLYHNurs4oVXxr8bSzmlQ BqulAMORWotrtOS5okg2z9y1D5nslDZhRmenDKVS7jHkg7XAECkxed5m9UVtDY4XEI4m QBYLNdmPnsLnpikfbimtIvyV5GYspz6ZgzHOONUWNM5omSrIz7OIl1Q0A31AWLyV00VG Kq4SxrHZuO/fHojw91dwoHR7WoiVLxzSTZNzDJY7cy+W2DWDVz/2Eb8cV77/+prf+PLS ZLug==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=b4IFriEpSi9cIhIl7JHS8SQXJ8NA3mNUnAW0QPhlS08=; b=rIjDCO2z2WKy4aJHCiRt1HVSX54sMHojUaMzZb4kmy+du2ykTkWObLO0WxXGcQD1g2 rw1485Ea1Y61gCQ4PGW/LiYlpc4xEgYuH1MpeNDpEEdkiU4De99oQXxSAnX8huDBoWLP XYUMxiGro0L37x6UFf78exSnCA1Ry2ZLucjOcByXblzi4FYcw5OYijtlsHA4zXf9Jz9g HAaFux2jCbJ5xpbDYr5pyHiDxmvnpCDet0mwFydpNE/+Qd9V2Ek1TS3uAh1ea3X1cx2L n7DFXVVkcqvTbjh8Rm3RggXmr1DWrQBoXg5cxzANLzd9+N6osvpa2NoK8WD3xmZDCgjn Dzog==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5337XEl37XREgI3EfMzk/m21wISrBc7SzpkZpcp3hJeQG+APDjaG ulW4fJVmhdXHq0NHvG9MkVtrhNG/lXdynsNikbmwH6wYX7s=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJw/9zalM8w8BEcQ3YKBS0zZ/agygg4qqMMtkoPbk+kpgP2Y+YB1XGUOE3p2IXofFdiUtvAD4pGDlcuSb/Emz10=
X-Received: by 2002:a25:ab6a:: with SMTP id u97mr1074066ybi.288.1616436256128; Mon, 22 Mar 2021 11:04:16 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <d072512f-ed66-bb8b-7338-58ed720210a2@erg.abdn.ac.uk> <CAKKJt-c7ZopV5pYredyLjd1o=vwVKzCOm+ccHx9oYCLK1U4aKA@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAKKJt-c7ZopV5pYredyLjd1o=vwVKzCOm+ccHx9oYCLK1U4aKA@mail.gmail.com>
From: Spencer Dawkins at IETF <spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2021 13:03:49 -0500
Message-ID: <CAKKJt-eW=6GARREi+=v21cP+RQP8iFm-_j-rcotHG0oW_-iHqQ@mail.gmail.com>
To: panrg@irtf.org
Cc: irtf-chair@irtf.org, panrg-chairs <panrg-chairs@irtf.org>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000d9428105be23e409"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/panrg/YWWsHzeXngZbhPPKHEMNxbhcX3E>
Subject: [PANRG] Updated text on ECN: draft-irtf-panrg-what-not-to-do-19 to be ...
X-BeenThere: panrg@irtf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: "Path Aware Networking \(Proposed\) Research Group discussion list" <panrg.irtf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.irtf.org/mailman/options/panrg>, <mailto:panrg-request@irtf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/panrg/>
List-Post: <mailto:panrg@irtf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:panrg-request@irtf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/panrg>, <mailto:panrg-request@irtf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2021 18:04:23 -0000
Dear All, I've worked through the discussion from IETF 110 in CoviMD, on the e-mail list, and in my own notes from our meeting. I said I would submit a -19 at the end of this week, and I still plan to do that, but if you want a preview, here's what I've got for the biggest changes. - The new "Lesson Learned" is "Plan for Failure". It's still Invariant, in Table 1. The text for it is "If early implementers discover severe problems with a new feature, that feature is likely to be disabled, and convincing implementers to re-enable that feature can be very difficult, and can require years or decades. *In addition to testing, partial deployment for a subset of users, implementing instrumentation that will detect degraded user experience, and even "failback" to a previous version or "failover" to an entirely different implementation are likely to be helpful. (See {{ecn}})."* - I reflected Bob Briscoe's points about AQM deployment being part of the ECN story, and emphasized that the ECN material focused on experiences that provided Lessons Learned that were not covered by other contributions. - I added material to the Lesson Learned, to bring it up to date. That section now continues *During discussion of ECN at {{PANRG-110}}, we noted that "you get one chance to get it right" isn't quite correct today, because so operating systems on so many host systems are frequently updated, which was not at all true in the early 2000s. We think that these restatements of the ECN Lessons Learned are more useful for current implementers: * *- Even if you do everything right, you may trip over implementation bugs in devices you know nothing about, that will cause severe problems that prevent successful deployment of your path aware technology. Testing before deployment isn't enough to ensure successful deployment. It is also necessary to "deploy gently", which often means deploying for a small subset of users to gain experience, and implementing feedback mechanisms to detect that user experience is being degraded. * *- After implementations disable your Path Aware technology, it may take years, or even decades, to convince implementers to re-enable it by default. This might be based on the difficulty of distributing implementations that enable it by default, but are just as likely to be based on the "bad taste in the mouth" that implementers have after an unsuccessful deployment attempt that degraded user experience. * *With these expansions, the two lessons, taken together, could be more helpfully summarized as "plan for failure" - anticipate what your next step will be, if initial deployment is unsuccessful. * *ECN deployment was also hindered by non-deployment of AQM in many devices, because of operator interest in QoS features provided in the network, rather than using the network to assist end systems in providing for themselves. But that's another story, and the AQM Lessons Learned are already covered in other contributions in {{Contributions}}.* Full details are at https://github.com/panrg/draft-dawkins-panrg-what-not-to-do/pull/7/commits/85ed46f5f7285346672d4d81861b028d9ed09072, of course, and comments here or in Github are always welcome. Best, Spencer >
- [PANRG] On the new text on ECN: draft-irtf-panrg-… Gorry Fairhurst
- Re: [PANRG] On the new text on ECN: draft-irtf-pa… Gorry Fairhurst
- Re: [PANRG] On the new text on ECN: draft-irtf-pa… Bob Briscoe
- Re: [PANRG] On the new text on ECN: draft-irtf-pa… Spencer Dawkins at IETF
- Re: [PANRG] On the new text on ECN: draft-irtf-pa… Bob Briscoe
- Re: [PANRG] On the new text on ECN: draft-irtf-pa… Holland, Jake
- Re: [PANRG] On the new text on ECN: draft-irtf-pa… Gorry Fairhurst
- Re: [PANRG] On the new text on ECN: draft-irtf-pa… Spencer Dawkins at IETF
- Re: [PANRG] On the new text on ECN: draft-irtf-pa… Spencer Dawkins at IETF
- [PANRG] Updated text on ECN: draft-irtf-panrg-wha… Spencer Dawkins at IETF
- Re: [PANRG] On the new text on ECN: draft-irtf-pa… Gorry Fairhurst
- Re: [PANRG] Updated text on ECN: draft-irtf-panrg… Spencer Dawkins at IETF
- Re: [PANRG] Updated text on ECN: draft-irtf-panrg… Gorry Fairhurst
- Re: [PANRG] Updated text on ECN: draft-irtf-panrg… Spencer Dawkins at IETF