Re: [Patient] recent thoughts from a mr chatham

"Arnaud.Taddei.IETF" <Arnaud.Taddei.IETF@protonmail.com> Thu, 14 December 2017 17:04 UTC

Return-Path: <Arnaud.Taddei.IETF@protonmail.com>
X-Original-To: patient@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: patient@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B527A129437 for <patient@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 09:04:17 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -5.497
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.497 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, FROM_WORDY=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-2.8, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=protonmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XdmUkWEfdp-F for <patient@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 09:04:09 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail4.protonmail.ch (mail4.protonmail.ch [185.70.40.27]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C9F9A126C0F for <patient@ietf.org>; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 09:04:08 -0800 (PST)
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 12:03:55 -0500
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=protonmail.com; s=default; t=1513271045; bh=d0atX1XjY7rQID/Kb9+RkqgCzNr96oEeWR94lnQAxTs=; h=Date:To:From:Cc:Reply-To:Subject:In-Reply-To:References: Feedback-ID:From; b=camAYwFtJa/xFdi9aa1yDECgrmqJ9dWVTAVPZwf9YG6KeZPoj8k5EKKwpU7TZx8QL 9fYzeArqhvDFVtznBv0ZS/6kpp+LerPqIfe4ZH9raBYhFBCfvYkbQubl/9nYIHaDXh MFyYZVtVzXEDJhmoRP/SgOBue91/H6vw+ovIZ4js=
To: Bret Jordan <jordan.ietf@gmail.com>
From: "Arnaud.Taddei.IETF" <Arnaud.Taddei.IETF@protonmail.com>
Cc: Kathleen Moriarty <kathleen.moriarty.ietf@gmail.com>, "patient@ietf.org" <patient@ietf.org>, Brian Witten <brian_witten@symantec.com>, Paul Wouters <paul@nohats.ca>
Reply-To: "Arnaud.Taddei.IETF" <Arnaud.Taddei.IETF@protonmail.com>
Message-ID: <5Glds9ORFEdVFkCw1Ay85qYUXlygr2wIidO57wmFjqCDhoYCdfNLG_WMc3lcy87nirbnnZJuTlk8zb6Ct7a20y0jFLZ52_NxfcHQvrH1qqA=@protonmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <EB794534-B02E-4347-82B7-6EFE87A619B5@gmail.com>
References: <MWHPR16MB1488C8550EB20D15997A957793350@MWHPR16MB1488.namprd16.prod.outlook.com> <alpine.LRH.2.21.1712132052390.28112@bofh.nohats.ca> <CAHbuEH6j+2YDQGki_Fp6UxCygoOR-GfoYAvC=6b0QJoRVD2x-Q@mail.gmail.com> <EB794534-B02E-4347-82B7-6EFE87A619B5@gmail.com>
Feedback-ID: kou6vaSHQeY5dgFN9dCIYKo4z6hnnNmKuV4IBJw2wx4vSVPtftyhWUTBigri6zMJ3K1hxYJjI-3RAIGaizMt5g==:Ext:ProtonMail
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="b1_076c76edac16f17bfa8c89167b2242f5"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/patient/PcnngVjseI-IdwQTs8ckgaXhcGk>
Subject: Re: [Patient] recent thoughts from a mr chatham
X-BeenThere: patient@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22
Precedence: list
List-Id: Protecting against Attacks Tunneling In Encrypted Network Tunnels <patient.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/patient>, <mailto:patient-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/patient/>
List-Post: <mailto:patient@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:patient-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/patient>, <mailto:patient-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 17:04:18 -0000

Thank you Brian for sharing both the Internet Draft and the minutes.

To Paul, it was particularly hard for me to take the minutes that evening, first time at IETF, not knowing most of you, not always hearing correctly each accent and not accustomed to a lot of aspects of this team. I hope you will give me a chance to improve.

However I do not buy at all the fact that I tried to orientate anything in taking the minutes. I respect all the opinions the team has and as a French person said 'I can disagree with you but I will make all what I can for your opinion can be heard'.

The room was very packed I heard what I heard on the mic but I couldn't hear everyone in every part of the room. If any specifics is missing please help us understand what so that we can improve the minutes, this is pretty simple.

Sent with [ProtonMail](https://protonmail.com) Secure Email.

> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: [Patient] recent thoughts from a mr chatham
> Local Time: 14 December 2017 3:11 AM
> UTC Time: 14 December 2017 02:11
> From: jordan.ietf@gmail.com
> To: Kathleen Moriarty <kathleen.moriarty.ietf@gmail.com>
> patient@ietf.org <patient@ietf.org>rg>, Brian Witten <brian_witten@symantec.com>om>, Paul Wouters <paul@nohats.ca>
>
> Thanks for the clarification Kathleen.
>
> Bret
>
> Sent from my Commodore 128D
>
> PGP Fingerprint: 63B4 FC53 680A 6B7D 1447  F2C0 74F8 ACAE 7415 0050
>
> On Dec 13, 2017, at 7:07 PM, Kathleen Moriarty <kathleen.moriarty.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Dec 13, 2017 at 8:55 PM, Paul Wouters <paul@nohats.ca> wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, 13 Dec 2017, Brian Witten wrote:
>>
>>>
>>
>>>> Given the amount of ground that was covered in the recent discussion, many
>>
>>>> good points were raised from many diverse perspectives, and capturing them
>>
>>>> digitally helps others who could not
>>
>>>> travel for the event.  I've been reminded (Thank You Again!) of the Note
>>
>>>> Well, that all discussions at IETF events are contributions for the record,
>>
>>>> but in this case, names were not
>>
>>>> recorded except for myself and Arnaud to make questions & corrections
>>
>>>> easiest.
>>
>>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>> Note that the attached minutes does not reflect the discussion we
>>
>>> actually had. There was a large part of the room that completely
>>
>>> disagreed with this approach that has not made it onto the minutes,
>>
>>> including my own comments and questions.
>>
>>>
>>
>>> It would help for next meeting, if we can meet with proper remote
>>
>>> participation and recording support, and even better, a desinterested
>>
>>> minute taker.
>>
>> That would require a BoF, this was a bar BoF.  If one is requested and
>> approved, that will all be possible.
>>
>>>
>>
>>> Paul
>>
>>>
>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>> PATIENT mailing list
>>
>>> PATIENT@ietf.org
>>
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/patient
>>
>> --
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Kathleen
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> PATIENT mailing list
>> PATIENT@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/patient