Re: [Patient] DOJ first on encryption services

"Diego R. Lopez" <> Sun, 18 March 2018 12:51 UTC

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From: "Diego R. Lopez" <>
To: Eric Rescorla <>, "" <>
CC: Brian Witten <>, "" <>
Thread-Topic: [Patient] DOJ first on encryption services
Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2018 12:51:02 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Patient] DOJ first on encryption services
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Hmmm… The SNI would be a much weaker evidence than the server certificate, wouldn’t it?

"Esta vez no fallaremos, Doctor Infierno"

Dr Diego R. Lopez
Telefonica I+D

Tel:         +34 913 129 041
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On 18/03/2018, 12:46, "Eric Rescorla" <<>> wrote:

On Sun, Mar 18, 2018 at 12:30 PM, Tony Rutkowski <<>> wrote:
Hi Diego,

It is also worth referencing a relatively recent Lawfare article on the scaling litigation in the U.S. against those supporting e2e encryption services or capabilities.

This litigation trend is also likely to increase the insurance costs of providers.  Indeed, a provider that supports TLS1.3, QUIC, SNI, etc, may not even be able to get insurance.  It may be fun and games to play crypto rebel in venues like the IETF where the risk exposure is minimal, but when it comes to real world consequences and costs, the equations for providers are rather different.

I think this rather overestimates the degree to which both TLS 1.3 and QUIC change the equation about what a provider is able to determine from traffic inspection. As a practical matter, the primary change from TLS 1.2 is that the provider does not get to see the server's certificate, but it does see the SNI. Given that the SNI contains the identity of the server that the client is connected to and that the other identities in the certificate are often whatever the provider decided to co-locate on the same machine, I'm not sure how much information you are really losing.



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