Re: [Paw] Renaming: SPAWN vs. RAW

[Fabrice Theoleyre <[e-mail]>]

I have a slight preference for RAW.

Fabrice


> Le 5 avr. 2019 à 14:19, Mukesh Taneja (mutaneja) <[e-mail]> a écrit :
> 
>  
> I am for something like – SRAW with S from SPWAN (for Scheduled).
> 
> Thanks,
> Mukesh
>  
> From: Paw <[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>> on behalf of Xavi Vilajosana Guillen <[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>>
> Date: Friday, 5 April 2019 at 5:42 PM
> To: AUDEBERT Vincent <[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>>
> Cc: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" <[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>>, Juliusz Chroboczek <[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>>, Hesham ElBakoury <[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>>, "Prof. Diego Dujovne" <[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>>, "[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>" <[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>>, Lou Berger <[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>>, "Venkatesan, Ganesh" <[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>>
> Subject: Re: [Paw] Renaming: SPAWN vs. RAW
>  
> Same here. RAW is shorter and easier to spell. 
>  
> regards
> Xavi
>  
> Missatge de AUDEBERT Vincent <[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>> del dia dv., 5 d’abr. 2019 a les 14:01:
> Hi Pascal, All,
>  
> I am in favor of RAW.
>  
> Regards
>  
> Vincent
>  
> <image001.png>
>  
> Vincent AUDEBERT
> Research Engineer
> EDF – R&D Lab Saclay
> MIRE
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>  
> De : Paw [mailto:[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>] De la part de [e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>
> Envoyé : vendredi 5 avril 2019 13:59
> À : Prof. Diego Dujovne <[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>>; Hesham ElBakoury <[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>>
> Cc : Lou Berger <[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>>; [e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>; Juliusz Chroboczek <[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>>; Venkatesan, Ganesh <[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>>
> Objet : Re: [Paw] Renaming: SPAWN vs. RAW
>  
> Votes are still open. Do we keep SPAWN or do we jump to RAW.
> What does sound right, a SPAWN or a RAW Network?
>  
> All the best,
>  
> Pascal
>  
> From: Paw <[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>> On Behalf Of Prof. Diego Dujovne
> Sent: vendredi 5 avril 2019 13:51
> To: Hesham ElBakoury <[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>>
> Cc: Pascal Thubert (pthubert) <[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>>; Lou Berger <[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>>;[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>; Venkatesan, Ganesh <[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>>; Juliusz Chroboczek <[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>>
> Subject: Re: [Paw] Renaming
>  
> Pascal,
>            Shall we split this e-mail between the renaming
> topic and the reliability metrics discussion? I think both
> items are really relevant to the group and deserve their
> individual space.
> Regards,
>  
>                              Diego Dujovne
>  
> Le ven. 5 avr. 2019 à 07:03, Hesham ElBakoury <[e-mail] <mailto:Hesham.ElBakoury@huawei..com>> a écrit :
> There is a good book on reliability by Michael Tortorella. The book is "Reliability, Maintainability, and Supportability: Best Practices for Systems Engineers". It is available from Wiley.
> 
> Hesham
> 
>  
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Paw [mailto:[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>] On Behalf Of Pascal Thubert (pthubert)
> Sent: Friday, April 5, 2019 1:55 AM
> To: Juliusz Chroboczek <[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>>
> Cc: Lou Berger <[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>>; [e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>; Venkatesan, Ganesh <[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>>
> Subject: Re: [Paw] Renaming
> 
>  
> 
> Hello Juliusz:
> 
>  
> 
> Actually the theoretical work has been done a while ago, as  a response to your question at the mike when I suggested you dig for MTBF or similar (MTTF, MTBE...). We tend to express a network form of MTBF in a number of 9s. Like five 9s would indicate that the Mean Successful Transmissions Between Errors is 99999. A number of use cases would thrive on 1% loss as long as losses are always well spaced so the missing points can be recovered. This can be true for an industrial control loop, and false for burning a master video. The N 9s are there to make the occurrence of P (say, 4) losses in a row very rare, like a probability of 1/10^(N*P). But the 9s are for unrelated errors and fail to convey a rare burst of errors with a common cause, which is what really hurts. These things happen on radios and that's why we are after diverse paths etc...
> 
>  
> 
> There's enough stats for is inhttps://ftp.automationdirect.com/pub/Product%20Reliability%20and%20MTBF.pdf <https://ftp.automationdirect.com/pub/Product%20Reliability%20and%20MTBF.pdf> to take us a long way. Our problem is to migrate the concept from a product to a sequence of nodes and then to more complex structures. This could be refined in an academic paper, I expect that'd be a great topic, and then an RFC would summarize that.
> 
>  
> 
> What I'd like to see is an informational RFC that presents wireless reliability in a way that can be consumed by the IETF members, and provides terminology that can be referred in our specs. You seemed curious about the topic; that's quality number one for achieving great results : )
> 
>  
> 
> All the best,
> 
>  
> 
> Pascal
> 
>  
> 
> More links:
> 
> http://www.bb-elec.com/Learning-Center/All-White-Papers/Fiber/MTBF,-MTTR,-MTTF,-FIT-Explanation-of-Terms/MTBF-MTTR-MTTF-FIT-10262012-pdf.pdf <http://www.bb-elec.com/Learning-Center/All-White-Papers/Fiber/MTBF,-MTTR,-MTTF,-FIT-Explanation-of-Terms/MTBF-MTTR-MTTF-FIT-10262012-pdf.pdf>
> https://books.google.nl/books?id=rNLSBQAAQBAJ&pg=PA171&lpg=PA171&dq=reliability+MTBF+MTBE+papers&source=bl&ots=L7BsInfaO3&sig=ACfU3U0kYd1lGRyRR_aD5AET9LOI8ZfZWg&hl=fr&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwisr-LirLjhAhWPZ1AKHe8yARwQ6AEwA3oECAgQAQ <https://books.google.nl/books?id=rNLSBQAAQBAJ&pg=PA171&lpg=PA171&dq=reliability+MTBF+MTBE+papers&source=bl&ots=L7BsInfaO3&sig=ACfU3U0kYd1lGRyRR_aD5AET9LOI8ZfZWg&hl=fr&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwisr-LirLjhAhWPZ1AKHe8yARwQ6AEwA3oECAgQAQ>
>  
> 
> https://www.dfrsolutions.com/blog/the-challenges-of-wireless-reliability <https://www..dfrsolutions.com/blog/the-challenges-of-wireless-reliability>
>  
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> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> 
> > From: Juliusz Chroboczek <[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>>
> 
> > Sent: vendredi 5 avril 2019 01:40
> 
> > To: Pascal Thubert (pthubert) <[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>>
> 
> > Cc: Venkatesan, Ganesh <[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>>; Lou Berger 
> 
> > <[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>>; [e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>
> > Subject: Re: [Paw] Renaming
> 
> >
> 
> > > We'll also need to provide a definition of reliability and
> 
> > > availability and as we discussed, 5nines is probably not the only or
> 
> > > even best way to express any of that. Juliusz actually raised the
> 
> > > point and I hope he continues on that path and even produces a spec for us.
> 
> >
> 
> > I'm flattered you think so, but I'm pretty sure I'm not competent. 
> 
> > You'd need someone with more of a background in probability and statistics.
> 
> >
> 
> > -- Juliusz
> 
>  
> 
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