Re: [Paw] Towards a PAW WG

["Prof. Diego Dujovne" <[e-mail]>]

Pascal,
             So many interesting things to do...
I am currently working on space diversity for 6tisch, and
one of my students is also working on G-MPLS and flow
support.
             Moreover, I am really interested in deterministic
flows -à la wireless- and controlled replication to provide
latency guarantees.
             Thank you.
             Regards,

                                     Diego

Le mar. 18 déc. 2018 à 05:58, <[e-mail]> a écrit :

> Thanks for your response, Pascal.
>
> Spinning off from 6tisch is a good starting point, I think. And
> if we are using non-IP encapsulation, we need so many components
> to discuss and 6tisch WG cannot cover that.
>
>
> > The IESG is polling for BoF requests for Prague. Would you be interested
> in seeing that happen?
>
> Yes, I'm very interested in PAW BoF!
>
>
> Best regards,
> Toshio Ito
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Pascal Thubert (pthubert) <[e-mail]>
> > Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2018 4:59 PM
> > To: ito toshio(伊藤 俊夫 ○ＲＤＣ□ＮＳＬ) <[e-mail]>; [e-mail]
> > Subject: RE: Towards a PAW WG
> >
> > Great question, Toshio : )
> >
> > The architecture of 6TiSCH is global but the work there always focused
> on IPv6 (best effort) over 15.4 TSCH.
> > I do not see 6TiSCH rechartering for DetNet type.
> > I see PAW as a spin off from 6TISCH, focusing on the deterministic side
> of the 6TiSCH architecture, and
> > extending to other MAC/PHYs, e.g., work starting at 802.11 in RTA/EHT.
> >
> > And yes, I see PAW taking over the deterministic wireless data model
> work that started in 6TiSCH and stalled
> > there. That is the last point below. We also have to consider what the
> detnet data plane formats becomes
> > in a GMPLS environment where the flow ID and possibly the sequence can
> be implicit, derived from the timeslot.
> >
> > The IESG is polling for BoF requests for Prague. Would you be interested
> in seeing that happen?
> >
> > Pascal
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
> > > Sent: mardi 18 décembre 2018 08:46
> > > To: Pascal Thubert (pthubert) <[e-mail]>; [e-mail]
> > > Subject: RE: Towards a PAW WG
> > >
> > > Hi Pascal,
> > >
> > > I'm interested in DetNet on wireless, especially on IEEE 802.15.4
> TSCH. I think
> > > some features in TSN (e.g. 802.1Qch) can be mapped to TSCH thanks to
> its
> > > time-aware nature. To do that kind of mapping, we need its data model
> and
> > > management interface for it.
> > >
> > > I have a question, though. Isn't PAW covered by 6tisch WG?
> > > draft-ietf-6tisch-architecture-19 talks about deterministic wireless
> networks for
> > > industrial applications, centralized TSCH scheduling, and packet
> replication.
> > > There are some expired drafts (*1) for centralized management. I don't
> know
> > > what's happened to those drafts, but I thought 6tisch WG would
> eventually
> > > work on centralized networks in future. Isn't it gonna happen?
> > >
> > > If we are to expand our focus to include 802.11 radio, probably 6tisch
> WG
> > > cannot cover that.
> > >
> > >
> > > *1: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-6tisch-6top-interface-04
> > >     https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-6tisch-coap-03
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Best regards,
> > > Toshio Ito
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Paw <[e-mail]> On Behalf Of Pascal Thubert
> > > > (pthubert)
> > > > Sent: Friday, December 14, 2018 10:19 PM
> > > > To: [e-mail]
> > > > Subject: [Paw] Towards a PAW WG
> > > >
> > > > Dear all:
> > > >
> > > > At the PAW bar BOF in Bangkok, we found common interests in
> discussing
> > > > matters similar to DetNet but with a focus on wireless.
> > > >
> > > > What’s so special with wireless? Well, in very short, scheduling
> > > > brings all the benefits it does on wires, and more. Scheduling can
> > > > enable multi channel operations, energy savings, G-MPLS forwarding
> > > operations with schedule-based Replication (overhearing), Elimination
> and
> > > Reordering.
> > > >
> > > > But the methods to build a Predictable and Available Wireless network
> > > > will differ from those used by DetNet/TSN on wires because the
> medium can
> > > be shared, lossy, and broadcast.
> > > >
> > > > This is why we also discussed the need of a group that would
> > > > specifically address the PAW problem. What would such a group do?
> > > >
> > > > Quite simply PAW would aim at providing latency and throughput
> > > > guarantees over a set of radios to be defined, and collaborate with
> the groups
> > > in charge of these radios. In more details:
> > > >
> > > > - Which radios? There are 2 elephants in that room, the adult, ieee
> > > > std 802.15.4 TSCH for which we have RFC 7554, and the young, ieee sig
> > > > 802.11 RTA, for which we’d need an informational doc explaining
> what’s
> > > > special and interesting about it. Also I’m hearing through the
> grapevine that
> > > the German DLR is developing a new radio that could become a standard
> for
> > > plane communication.
> > > >
> > > > - there is a need to extend the DetNet use cases draft with a
> wireless
> > > > twist. Cover real time gaming, in cars and in planes automation,
> > > > conferencing, building automation, and industrial process control
> and factory
> > > automation.
> > > >
> > > > - there is work that is discussed at BIER and ROLL about methods that
> > > > could provide extensive time and space diversity using synchronized
> > > > overhearing and elimination, as well as OAM techniques to optimize
> the use
> > > of the possibly extensive replication that can be needed to provide
> high
> > > delivery ratio with bounded latency.
> > > > This work needs a central hosting.
> > > >
> > > > - 6TiSCH provides IP best effort over a PAW-capable radio, but did
> not work
> > > on the deterministic flows.
> > > > We are missing the data model to control the GMPLS forwarding over
> > > > complex Tracks that is described in the 6TiSCH architecture. PAW
> would be
> > > the natural place to do that.
> > > >
> > > > - ... <anything I missed?>
> > > >
> > > > All and all, there is quite a bit of work ahead. But then, we need to
> > > > show that we can build a critical mass of people to form a WG. This
> is where
> > > this list comes into play.
> > > >
> > > > So please respond, indicate what radio we could work on, what network
> > > > layer problem we need to solve, what amount of energy you are
> willing to
> > > make this happen. Don’t be shy!!
> > > >
> > > > Many thanks in advance...
> > > >
> > > > Pascal
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Paw mailing list
> > > > [e-mail]
> > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/paw
> --
> Paw mailing list
> [e-mail]
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/paw
>


-- 
DIEGO DUJOVNE
Profesor Asociado
Escuela de Informática y Telecomunicaciones
Facultad de Ingeniería - Universidad Diego Portales - Chile
www.ingenieria.udp.cl
(56 2) 676 8125