Re: [Pce] Murray Kucherawy's No Objection on draft-ietf-pce-association-policy-15: (with COMMENT)

"Murray S. Kucherawy" <superuser@gmail.com> Thu, 21 January 2021 04:37 UTC

Return-Path: <superuser@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: pce@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: pce@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FB853A174D; Wed, 20 Jan 2021 20:37:10 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.097
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZRlTCWPhYLQ0; Wed, 20 Jan 2021 20:37:09 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-vs1-xe31.google.com (mail-vs1-xe31.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::e31]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5AC663A174C; Wed, 20 Jan 2021 20:37:08 -0800 (PST)
Received: by mail-vs1-xe31.google.com with SMTP id w187so381126vsw.5; Wed, 20 Jan 2021 20:37:08 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=n2xq35NXE2u5SRgD/YEKIhF5t+h+/50AYKxE6YhG3RI=; b=boyVhEBN3qhFS8QPwZpc5GR6kGZkaGOgajPZZn+VYo/qy5GK6xSuPqKmf+7EZrP+6a 3kil7JaLAN6ZU43Hll/Qcd28pe7upcv5+o941ZwLtu7e7D97IoMz44J5cIlBl+26rFkz u1H6tequUb2RfsXBWUlHyrfE66AB49oQAQIYCJsCSrl3Py9NdMqBF23av7FpvY1lnPSJ ulAlHUItOGvN9o9Xc4V07hw4A4Rqcz46rKDz2uDxaPPpyaoOeRVnAswGf8K+ms+XJMSH YDtPriUBRydubYjDxCXMoNDweUeZzq7Dn7iRwqLhMmTQPy20WHRWcJ8DTREZ6Y1ODI4W MIXg==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=n2xq35NXE2u5SRgD/YEKIhF5t+h+/50AYKxE6YhG3RI=; b=B8YbXBnqyTyQBonb1YwS47CFF26iMRrQmRxS7LZPObbH/EHIKwRcLwLSe6azku0L32 mnFAscUClATxDJL43w+frMEV8hHvRqcWr/ta98LiHMNs6bA5GHJ//ISd9mPkPXugDORh mR5F829qhtoatl/w0H0vAuUNr50VvQm4LPzFAjfdyc0csNKvdFo8cWdAN/qpBRHDeKaH KYIwMK7VC7FDTKeElaaOB1Zj5BK/bHWKuTUrOQu4v7J0qu7vhsf5cM+59COcGRcFgZbs ZVMrekCwjipDxg2xJOV/J0LffbA/XW/X0g+wnmL4U1H1NziTpF9zQLv2QCOfJOQcrPC7 Qu8Q==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM53058jty1CjZLjscTLv5LxVxkClVwuVbN68sGzdbQFqOxis/V3tp 7hLKF7Dlmzi02o9B3B1S4Leyzxh8mcw6wiZcXCg=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJz+LTKVU3mqWjTJYXVo/yK1iwpIE8truHK9yGX2v4BmQwneGtYANWfnNKrmB9gdY7qukvEdqaw840HuBE9XNmA=
X-Received: by 2002:a67:18c6:: with SMTP id 189mr9017751vsy.54.1611203827194; Wed, 20 Jan 2021 20:37:07 -0800 (PST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <161112914381.1787.15786067723940959145@ietfa.amsl.com> <MWHPR02MB2464F4A34B5E54FC7080B46DD6A29@MWHPR02MB2464.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
In-Reply-To: <MWHPR02MB2464F4A34B5E54FC7080B46DD6A29@MWHPR02MB2464.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
From: "Murray S. Kucherawy" <superuser@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2021 20:36:56 -0800
Message-ID: <CAL0qLwaWdWPpJGujezYTJRjr0=8uMF-n_0mFyc0Gy_0vzt4Hiw@mail.gmail.com>
To: "BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A" <db3546@att.com>
Cc: The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-pce-association-policy@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-pce-association-policy@ietf.org>, "pce@ietf.org" <pce@ietf.org>, "pce-chairs@ietf.org" <pce-chairs@ietf.org>, Hariharan Ananthakrishnan <hari@netflix.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000c7e17505b9619fa1"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/pce/YiBk7d7zRWBg-uM7eII6mTjMmkY>
Subject: Re: [Pce] Murray Kucherawy's No Objection on draft-ietf-pce-association-policy-15: (with COMMENT)
X-BeenThere: pce@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: Path Computation Element <pce.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/pce>, <mailto:pce-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/pce/>
List-Post: <mailto:pce@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:pce-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pce>, <mailto:pce-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2021 04:37:11 -0000

On Wed, Jan 20, 2021 at 11:51 AM BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A <db3546@att.com> wrote:

> Thanks for your comment! As an operator, this is my fav question to reply😊
>
> Use of BCP 14 language for a manageability section has long been a
> practice in our pce documents and other documents (of my groups). We
> learned from our previous (famous on manageability) AD how important this
> section was to include.
>
> Some pointers:
>
> RFC5706 (an ops document (2009)) section 3.1 provides a great description
> on why management interoperability needs to be considered just as important
> as protocol interoperability. Without management interoperability, one will
> not have protocol interoperability.
>
> RFC6123 (our famous AD (2011)) "Inclusion of Manageability Sections in PCE
> Working Group Drafts"
>
> BCP14 language was used in the manageability section of RFC5440, the
> original PCEP protocol definition RFC.
>
> I'd recommend all Areas to seriously consider RFC5706 recommendations.
> Adrian and others had hoped to have it on the same level as the attention
> given to the Security section. And I see Warren often making note of the
> missing information. YANG does help, but there is a real risk to not
> include general recommendations in the original protocol specification
> (especially for vendors still hammering away on CLI).
>

Hi Deborah,

Thanks for this context.  I hadn't encountered this sort of use of BCP 14
language this way before which is why I was puzzled.

I'm looking at RFC 5706 and it specifically avoids BCP 14 key words,
perhaps to avoid exactly the thing that caught my attention.  But yes, it
was an interesting perspective.

-MSK