Re: [Pce] Visibility into the Chairs' Queue of Work

Julien Meuric <julien.meuric@orange.com> Thu, 13 December 2018 13:00 UTC

Return-Path: <julien.meuric@orange.com>
X-Original-To: pce@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: pce@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99B6C128CFD for <pce@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 13 Dec 2018 05:00:51 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.899
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_FAIL=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2jStQDL8tld9 for <pce@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 13 Dec 2018 05:00:49 -0800 (PST)
Received: from p-mail-ext.rd.orange.com (p-mail-ext.rd.orange.com [161.106.1.9]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA5DE1292F1 for <pce@ietf.org>; Thu, 13 Dec 2018 05:00:48 -0800 (PST)
Received: from p-mail-ext.rd.orange.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id AB9185613A7; Thu, 13 Dec 2018 14:00:29 +0100 (CET)
Received: from p-mail-int.rd.francetelecom.fr (p-mail-int.rd.francetelecom.fr [10.192.117.12]) by p-mail-ext.rd.orange.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5E44561077; Thu, 13 Dec 2018 14:00:29 +0100 (CET)
Received: from p-mail-int.rd.francetelecom.fr (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id 0FA891817D1; Thu, 13 Dec 2018 14:00:32 +0100 (CET)
Received: from [10.193.71.36] (l-at13891.rd.francetelecom.fr [10.193.71.36]) by p-mail-int.rd.francetelecom.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80E64182887; Thu, 13 Dec 2018 13:41:07 +0100 (CET)
To: adrian@olddog.co.uk
Cc: pce@ietf.org
References: <055701d492c6$efb89ba0$cf29d2e0$@olddog.co.uk>
From: Julien Meuric <julien.meuric@orange.com>
Organization: Orange
Message-ID: <5ee9dde9-353e-4ebd-1345-fe07f9c93b84@orange.com>
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2018 13:41:07 +0100
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.2.1
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <055701d492c6$efb89ba0$cf29d2e0$@olddog.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Language: en-US
X-PMX-Version: 6.4.6.2792898, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.2107409, Antispam-Data: 2018.12.13.125416, AntiVirus-Engine: 5.56.0, AntiVirus-Data: 2018.12.13.5560001
X-PMX-Spam: Gauge=IIIIIIII, Probability=8%, Report=' HTML_00_01 0.05, HTML_00_10 0.05, BODY_SIZE_4000_4999 0, BODY_SIZE_5000_LESS 0, BODY_SIZE_7000_LESS 0, IN_REP_TO 0, LEGITIMATE_SIGNS 0, MSG_THREAD 0, REFERENCES 0, URI_WITH_PATH_ONLY 0, __ANY_URI 0, __BOUNCE_CHALLENGE_SUBJ 0, __BOUNCE_NDR_SUBJ_EXEMPT 0, __CP_URI_IN_BODY 0, __CT 0, __CTE 0, __CT_TEXT_PLAIN 0, __DQ_NEG_HEUR 0, __DQ_NEG_IP 0, __FORWARDED_MSG 0, __HAS_CC_HDR 0, __HAS_FROM 0, __HAS_MSGID 0, __HTTPS_URI 0, __IN_REP_TO 0, __MIME_TEXT_ONLY 0, __MIME_TEXT_P 0, __MIME_TEXT_P1 0, __MIME_VERSION 0, __MOZILLA_USER_AGENT 0, __MULTIPLE_URI_TEXT 0, __NO_HTML_TAG_RAW 0, __REFERENCES 0, __SANE_MSGID 0, __SUBJ_ALPHA_END 0, __SUBJ_ALPHA_NEGATE 0, __SUBJ_REPLY 0, __TO_MALFORMED_2 0, __TO_NO_NAME 0, __URI_IN_BODY 0, __URI_NOT_IMG 0, __URI_NO_MAILTO 0, __URI_NS , __URI_WITH_PATH 0, __USER_AGENT 0'
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/pce/aZp2iWHFsZnCt76uhIzpY3qOjlg>
Subject: Re: [Pce] Visibility into the Chairs' Queue of Work
X-BeenThere: pce@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: Path Computation Element <pce.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/pce>, <mailto:pce-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/pce/>
List-Post: <mailto:pce@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:pce-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pce>, <mailto:pce-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2018 13:00:52 -0000

Hi Adrian,

Thank you for the buttkick, this is sometimes useful, especially when
(temporarily) transitioning from a couple of chairs kicking each other
to a single one struggling at self-kicking. This is another opportunity
to greet Jon again for his valuable work, both on stage and behind the
scene. :-)

Good news: our secretary agrees to implement your proposal on the WG's
wiki. Knowing how proactive Dhruv can be, please find the resulting page
here: https://trac.ietf.org/trac/pce/wiki

About draft-zhang-pce-resource-sharing (which isn't really the last
adoption poll), thanks for the reminder. I've synchronized with Jon and
will follow-up on the corresponding thread.

Last but not least, thank you for the thorough reviews you've recently
shared on the WG list: this is highly valuable to make I-Ds ready to
progress and is clearly helpful to successfully go through the further
steps in the process. Even if not thanked each time, your work is always
appreciated.

Cheers,

Julien


On 13/12/2018 10:33, Adrian Farrel wrote:
> Hi Chairs,
>
> I'm trying to think of ways that the WG participants can get a bet view of
> what process work is pending and when to expect it.
>
> At each IETF meeting you present a useful slide showing the "WG documents at
> or near last call"
>
> For example, at IETF 103 you showed
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/103/materials/slides-103-pce-1-administ
> rivia-and-wg-status-00.pdf which indicates that we had four documents
> pending shepherd review.
> - inter-area-as-applicability
> - stateful-pce-p2mp
> - hierarchy-extensions
> - association-group
> .and four documents in the queue for WG last call
> - stateful-pce-auto-bandwidth
> - applicability-actn
> - pcep-stateful-pce-gmpls
> - stateful-hpce
>
> This list is helpful because those of us who want to see work move along can
> get in early and do our "last call reviews" even before last call is
> started.
>
> Looking at the datatracker and the mailing list, I see that:
> - one draft expired ages ago
> - one draft has been waiting for the shepherd for 6 weeks
> - one has been waiting for the shepherd for only 1 week (seems reasonable
> :-)
> - one has been waiting for the shepherd for 12 weeks or more
> I also see that none of the four WG last calls has been started.
>
> Now, I really don't want to be pissy here: I appreciate the work that the
> chairs' do and I know that no one ever got rich being a WG chair. But I
> wonder whether we could unstick this a bit and move the drafts along.
>
> Maybe it would help to put this list on the WG wiki so that we can see in a
> little bit more detail what the next steps are and who we should be
> prodding. If there's a reason why a document is hung, then it would be a
> good place to put a note so that we can see. It would also help set our
> expectations with regard to ordered lists and timing.
>
> Alternatively, some additional details could easily be put in the tracker
> using the sub-states, tags, and history comments. That wouldn't be as easy
> to see the whole list and understand the ordering challenges, but it would
> keep all the information in one place.
>
>
> At the same time, I'm trying to work out which documents are queued for
> consideration for WG adoption. Now, I know that we can all work on drafts at
> any time and don't have to wait for them to be adopted before considering
> them seriously, but it is a bit confusing not being able to tell which
> documents are waiting for process and when they are likely to be considered.
>
> I looked in the datatracker and I don't see any use of the sub-states/tags
> that can indicate "Candidate for WG Adoption". Do the chairs have a list of
> documents that they are considering for adoption? Sharing that list (such as
> on the wiki) would help save the authors from pestering the chairs at every
> opportunity, and would also set expectations for the working group with
> regard to timing and ordering. The last adoption poll I can see on the list
> ended on October 26th (with the chairs calling "no conclusion") - was that
> really the only document ready for consideration?
>
>
> I think this could be made to a go a lot more smoothly with greater
> visibility into the queue, and a wiki page would be cheap and easy to
> maintain. I bet the WG secretary would be willing to do this (Hi, Dhruv :-)
> but if not, I can set it up and the chairs can add the data.
>
> Thanks for your consideration.
>
> Best,
> Adrian
> --
> Fairy tales from North Wales brought to you for Christmas
> https://www.feedaread.com/profiles/8604/
> Available from your favourite online bookseller.
> Or contact me to receive a signed copy by mail.
>