Re: [Pce] Éric Vyncke's No Objection on charter-ietf-pce-07-04: (with COMMENT)

John Scudder <jgs@juniper.net> Thu, 14 December 2023 14:52 UTC

Return-Path: <jgs@juniper.net>
X-Original-To: pce@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: pce@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20329C14CF01; Thu, 14 Dec 2023 06:52:00 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.805
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.805 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, URIBL_DBL_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, URIBL_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=juniper.net header.b="xymv3YQE"; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=juniper.net header.b="Yp7AcqR+"
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([50.223.129.194]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2L-NzM9U2WdV; Thu, 14 Dec 2023 06:51:56 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mx0b-00273201.pphosted.com (mx0b-00273201.pphosted.com [67.231.152.164]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EE28DC14F680; Thu, 14 Dec 2023 06:51:55 -0800 (PST)
Received: from pps.filterd (m0108160.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0b-00273201.pphosted.com (8.17.1.24/8.17.1.24) with ESMTP id 3BE3RNpM004449; Thu, 14 Dec 2023 06:51:54 -0800
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=juniper.net; h= from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references:in-reply-to :content-type:content-id:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; s=PPS1017; bh=csbgAYUrc5dkIXygDq+dY3kJ6DOZHeCcuONsMUVNzU0=; b=x ymv3YQEf717IzpPTkq3nHuJz7kDGs1h5LLu0fByYDrRipqy3a44AfhjjP6eoASf2 A/gV0zDKNy3KZt820+N+oMh7QPjh3NeLSTP7KDeVMMUIui6a+aXHMFp9wX/dizGD d8vu3VrjyJHKhlgAjMUeWe9QKxVWiqq4eg0Wd5QMPyRugeQBRa/8cEn1KyDoFrYi g8LsNio0Ocg9rGBF2DoovtFjpVGwsFuiZ4uFUg8wuUy4u2fk1rUApdbP9NuApcZY NeDaIw4RMkMIyG3+n0gozanZ4G5asP0O+GI//YuFMlloR+oBUHnOHKJAso5Fsh2T KZJknhGmIU4RO2/AbWFIg==
Received: from cy4pr02cu007.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-westcentralusazlp17011018.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.93.6.18]) by mx0b-00273201.pphosted.com (PPS) with ESMTPS id 3uystjt0qe-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Thu, 14 Dec 2023 06:51:54 -0800 (PST)
ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=UqeFgjNWbUCXxtNZuXPWWhQoSHdNpRY5tSfgo7GGQxUDoYFfjSjRF4c1gIayiR97zZ2/tO1da+8gq9xypn4TxduyaGBcV1uRcBQyB7vv0rXH3l2N5jotAhnKYeFFkablx5FxZxvvEpkFdvDB8sHg7SjY7Z8v2YOuWa3MlEoYH3rOlHHU7/3R9D5ig0EcLdYOSFb6xf3THwGoC7kFI25v+trodh3+yDeBDjdRIIo9bdY4gbZ9pLBzgHeTYX287gdLJPDUvND1MZdqrYRXv0K+FRY24+/xNanYrijwS2EAPHpcQzJodBVDd2sm2OjW6yJCMx9ikzCPfRZkXisIB+oKtQ==
ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-ChunkCount:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-0:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-1; bh=csbgAYUrc5dkIXygDq+dY3kJ6DOZHeCcuONsMUVNzU0=; b=MJjCqcUBc/WALPJUjratP5QVJD2rviR87+TFjUIZ5+v3KO0aAaSqB8vwFPBXbag1BzkEyp/FOzNKxY4oRnZGjdd7wuYnsTUFkqG0BAE6wwE0EbNCbR+ia1XTvAUaj+VQ2Ubvv1SjZtpjhvYseKAUxH3cUbUSjLQTCeMXmZvkiducXz8lvDLEuHAAPBNpLzPOw/WMbem+h3MeYfVRyhp/xAmlaJtxQHH+pKIVZ+v7Gp0pM8TO4lrD9Kukp9h6nqmp5gIF/bAu9u+nP3WTrgCL02Rmbqkn5CKWxxmHBF36bLwZW6JE/29jmBCsaGdZCJU4IXaSsAObp1O8Flr1xWP/hg==
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=juniper.net; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=juniper.net; dkim=pass header.d=juniper.net; arc=none
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=juniper.net; s=selector1; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=csbgAYUrc5dkIXygDq+dY3kJ6DOZHeCcuONsMUVNzU0=; b=Yp7AcqR+6F5tbLfnO3R2UGmsgKkH1Y0zU1PclZvVfODyYuvbBZzGnKFk+9x+Pv1CIWKFc1yz596VmwgiJPLDyFAClFGylbXeMPEJt3s6c+QRm56U+CbGY8rkFFbsS6raEGEC3CSkK/HFp09Ov9erZRGZoLBfmmjSnDhvwk/2Zsg=
Received: from MN2PR05MB6109.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:208:c4::20) by SJ0PR05MB7839.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:a03:2aa::11) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.7091.28; Thu, 14 Dec 2023 14:51:51 +0000
Received: from MN2PR05MB6109.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::2d2c:74ba:ab44:1338]) by MN2PR05MB6109.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::2d2c:74ba:ab44:1338%4]) with mapi id 15.20.7091.028; Thu, 14 Dec 2023 14:51:51 +0000
From: John Scudder <jgs@juniper.net>
To: Éric Vyncke <evyncke@cisco.com>
CC: The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>, "pce-chairs@ietf.org" <pce-chairs@ietf.org>, "pce@ietf.org" <pce@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Pce] Éric Vyncke's No Objection on charter-ietf-pce-07-04: (with COMMENT)
Thread-Index: AQHaLnb6jFu49TFxXECD3tuBTxhW47Co3TUA
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2023 14:51:51 +0000
Message-ID: <94E9DEBA-5A25-4675-9D7B-9C59CD3ED879@juniper.net>
References: <170254914448.34300.5277203253123621909@ietfa.amsl.com>
In-Reply-To: <170254914448.34300.5277203253123621909@ietfa.amsl.com>
Accept-Language: en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
x-mailer: Apple Mail (2.3696.120.41.1.4)
x-ms-publictraffictype: Email
x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: MN2PR05MB6109:EE_|SJ0PR05MB7839:EE_
x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 24bf2f34-72ca-41dd-7e84-08dbfcb434b2
x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1
x-ms-exchange-antispam-relay: 0
x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0;
x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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
x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:MN2PR05MB6109.namprd05.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFS:(13230031)(376002)(346002)(366004)(136003)(39860400002)(396003)(230922051799003)(64100799003)(1800799012)(186009)(451199024)(5660300002)(478600001)(966005)(6486002)(6506007)(6512007)(66556008)(66446008)(64756008)(6916009)(54906003)(316002)(66476007)(53546011)(224303003)(2906002)(122000001)(66574015)(2616005)(71200400001)(86362001)(26005)(38070700009)(36756003)(76116006)(66946007)(91956017)(4326008)(8936002)(41300700001)(83380400001)(38100700002)(33656002)(45980500001); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102;
x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-chunkcount: 1
x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-0: 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
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-ID: <F9663549114EEF4E8D97EE78857A874D@namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: MN2PR05MB6109.namprd05.prod.outlook.com
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 24bf2f34-72ca-41dd-7e84-08dbfcb434b2
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 14 Dec 2023 14:51:51.1435 (UTC)
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: CJIR8lVRFoUFsIlLKt9X6AT57ngjP2O1u8pcaqjAb4ceLgHq/jzIyzHMjaf54a6Z
X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: SJ0PR05MB7839
X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: UuBKoEpsVhLi1hDTLQEMbSELDRdNQWC0
X-Proofpoint-GUID: UuBKoEpsVhLi1hDTLQEMbSELDRdNQWC0
X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=baseguard engine=ICAP:2.0.272,Aquarius:18.0.997,Hydra:6.0.619,FMLib:17.11.176.26 definitions=2023-12-09_01,2023-12-07_01,2023-05-22_02
X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_spam_notspam policy=outbound_spam score=0 impostorscore=0 clxscore=1015 malwarescore=0 adultscore=0 phishscore=0 suspectscore=0 priorityscore=1501 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 lowpriorityscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.19.0-2311290000 definitions=main-2312140104
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/pce/dS8wva6Uk4zeHIxsxhqtqibcZrQ>
Subject: Re: [Pce] Éric Vyncke's No Objection on charter-ietf-pce-07-04: (with COMMENT)
X-BeenThere: pce@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.39
Precedence: list
List-Id: Path Computation Element <pce.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/pce>, <mailto:pce-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/pce/>
List-Post: <mailto:pce@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:pce-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pce>, <mailto:pce-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2023 14:52:00 -0000

In line. Chairs and working group, please speak up quickly if you object to any of the changes proposed below.

> On Dec 14, 2023, at 5:19 AM, Éric Vyncke via Datatracker <noreply@ietf.org> wrote:
> 
> 
> Éric Vyncke has entered the following ballot position for
> charter-ietf-pce-07-04: No Objection
> 
> When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all
> email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this
> introductory paragraph, however.)
> 
> 
> 
> The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here:
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-pce/__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!CAIavEX72YXvVwmh8J-0C0sbHmW9lfDb9qmxJz1gdBk0Vs4nMYBhhmF5LqUbWmgw9CrYES30gLk8$
> 
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> COMMENT:
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> After re-reading the proposed charter for the n+1 time, some more comments:
> 
> 1) the first paragraph would benefit by directly stating that it is about MPLS,
> SR, BIER, Detnet... rather than adding a 2nd sentence "Further, the PCE WG ...."

Something like this?

OLD:
The PCE Working Group is chartered to specify the required protocols 
so as to enable a Path Computation Element (PCE)-based architecture
for the computation of paths for MPLS and GMPLS Point to Point and 
Point to Multi-point Traffic Engineered LSPs. Further, the PCE WG also
handles protocol extensions for new path setup types of Segment
Routing (SR), BIER, and Detnet.

NEW:
The PCE Working Group is chartered to specify the required protocols 
to enable a Path Computation Element (PCE)-based architecture
for the computation of paths for MPLS and GMPLS Point to Point and 
Point to Multi-point Traffic Engineered LSPs, as well as new path setup 
types of Segment Routing (SR), BIER, and Detnet.

> 2) in the same vein, the 2nd paragraph is only about (G)MPLS with terms like
> LSR and LSP.

As in,

OLD:
In this architecture path computation does not necessarily occur on 
the head-end (ingress) LSR, but on some other path computation entity
that may not be physically located on each head-end LSR. The TEAS
Working Group is responsible for defining and extending architectures
for Traffic Engineering (TE) and it is expected that the PCE and TEAS
WGs will work closely together on elements of TE architectures that
utilize PCE.

NEW:
In this architecture path computation does not necessarily occur on 
the head-end (ingress) router, but on some other path computation entity
that may not be physically located on each head-end router. The TEAS
Working Group is responsible for defining and extending architectures
for Traffic Engineering (TE) and it is expected that the PCE and TEAS
WGs will work closely together on elements of TE architectures that
utilize PCE.

> 3) in the last two bullets: what is the difference between "in cooperation" and
> "in *close* cooperation" ?

One is closer than the other? ;-)

I think we can strike “close”.

> 4) as written in my previous review, it would be clearer if the work items are
> directly qualified with 'standard tracks' or if 'specification' was used rather
> than 'definition'

Essentially, s/Definition/Specification/ (4x), right? My bad on missing this.

Thanks for the additional review and helpful comments,

--John