Re: [Pearg] descriptive censorship work: draft-hall-censorship-tech

Mallory Knodel <mallory@article19.org> Thu, 23 May 2019 11:15 UTC

Return-Path: <mallory@article19.org>
X-Original-To: pearg@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: pearg@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB04B1200C4 for <pearg@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 23 May 2019 04:15:03 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.901
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kKc2pVycwNgp for <pearg@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 23 May 2019 04:15:02 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from smarthost1.greenhost.nl (smarthost1.greenhost.nl [195.190.28.88]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5C82D120019 for <pearg@irtf.org>; Thu, 23 May 2019 04:15:02 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from smtp.greenhost.nl ([213.108.110.112]) by smarthost1.greenhost.nl with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from <mallory@article19.org>) id 1hTlgY-0003Jr-93; Thu, 23 May 2019 13:14:59 +0200
To: Vittorio Bertola <vittorio.bertola@open-xchange.com>, pearg@irtf.org
References: <CABtrr-Ubq5z_Nx4-VA7gLgGMaxOBvfpSpXKJfeO9Q9C9eCA8Fg@mail.gmail.com> <CAJm22JazQHLN=zZ_RpAwYX5AcUuws6nan-4jShzLwSbz2ysHsQ@mail.gmail.com> <e88b630d-b979-185b-e744-977ab080baad@cs.tcd.ie> <1397790134.3745.1558087203082@appsuite-dev-gw2.open-xchange.com> <d1dd5c3a-ba10-406e-d7d7-fc8c07d7ea10@article19.org> <542887485.4822.1558343428572@appsuite-dev-gw2.open-xchange.com> <58b015ab-4003-49b5-a46a-2fc0e9633ccf@article19.org> <2076823086.12099.1558598183028@appsuite-gw1.open-xchange.com> <2c514d92-c426-2869-b589-215a3d84b224@article19.org> <337912501.12768.1558609139766@appsuite-gw1.open-xchange.com>
From: Mallory Knodel <mallory@article19.org>
Openpgp: preference=signencrypt
Autocrypt: addr=mallory@article19.org; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQENBEx0TWcBCAC8sirY3nlDnRwY6XWmsvZtM9kmEK6H8no3ZuQ723PKwHOddw1nOykh0in/ /QGRmwtyVzsfLh6/94UUZTn10oo+xGAfw2gf1on5IJTIiphykk732PNnUakVGWwHNKQquTVc kLrydUaFVMb89BAXqExBKlMg2ciEjzbYMCs3I/qZAZ0Wr5nF3RQS8O78elTNAgWTZ98yKTZV DlRoDpnvbfwtIPqnISoSjDEvEUBdpykvS3jHqlR1f6Mx6Xs97S5CORaer/0qTcDm0PAb1Z9l IhMsFl05tNt2FpgS4/RN8NyLasAQNOlScpTJbAfRuyyvRm1N8GLIL1KX+YYeLyqzhdhZABEB AAG0Jk1hbGxvcnkgS25vZGVsIDxtYWxsb3J5QGFydGljbGUxOS5vcmc+iQFWBBMBCABAAhsD BwsJCAcDAgEGFQgCCQoLBBYCAwECHgECF4AWIQTj62PgZaOyQLzZsHEMMqJxvTzHgAUCXH1h mgUJEepHrwAKCRAMMqJxvTzHgH3DCAC1sjJmg4+/VcESEzNkiF3KHEDCAssEaQl2FWfuXVvJ /mPliFtjpVv6EhdgUG5lbOcu12TCUWg42wHkE2kbDWXLE3f7HL+Nq0pEPVdMRXLxEfaOs2oR KGx8lh4k1UgYEpnARI486TklOAONKWdJKstEPrtt9LtysnjvhZvYCTzLKJC98c5wUvC46QYy +NdK6GB+uyVzW5kP2uUUBYxiCyHivGBbv77jcJAFVAk96ut1GFpeCCZM2WyYzer95b9n9a1B UGdJgEEVVbbBIQw7yMbMPqEwa8rpfig7QG72GieYItQjllHXGbOECiBcOHrGtrFWsHWxOxJV bZSoVq6sn1UUuQENBEx0TWcBCADiak/YuMW4BbaWL0U9sNg4zO3Qy1OFeye8fJjR8O/wWVSq cqA+sxjzRUee2fHCp6kVLedy6dVfiKmr59p21r4selOdslKaWmEGtz2oYnGpyPB/jKjfleE5 cIkXCdqgDAhfbfuVdF7heHpfhUy4m3yOJl2+CluT/CG9AfaCtyrwqMJzLWK4vmkGXxnBgb92 mGK0WFB2oRydz+SsiobgpCAqJSLcr8ZHQ54SbD9yxxYPv8IsSjt4eJoZCFI7INBsz4i7aj/q 4xcxQ+xiUwyqCZUvrzMxpw7c8TXuPHStDyhnsKkFjxhlY5avNeu0VPwk72C64I+y93gpPrL3 vL0tEmU9ABEBAAGJATwEGAECACYCGwwWIQTj62PgZaOyQLzZsHEMMqJxvTzHgAUCXH1hmgUJ EepHswAKCRAMMqJxvTzHgEDZCACcTamfNdBACpPHsmsJL1hbWertwYZg7h2rZtgmZQ9C2PMT OgkPPSsfi+xZ6PaXlvm2RI/TX51LbJsCJ9Fd2/WxKdtC0s6o7+0Cl3P57AORf3BRfl3zfXuy VhzjLvM9WhDiQM6JBqDuYxiYnjO56l+gozEuBAtUJaPIxGyggyS5eT8kKv8Szpc4g7/skZXq ccVOHj05KCOaFQ774rsIzcwppqJqGjh9X6nX6m2DONuBIYNXjH9U6FxHSJ6gRRxZkiz2/dDZ YqsHYlkKigH82r9gORhIGZkCd7xnRhyLOHnjjeKtIy5pvGwxUohy+y5l8i1155JEPNB7pphY xFxjMOQU
Message-ID: <86f9073b-2dfc-7519-5633-bf2fa167c91f@article19.org>
Date: Thu, 23 May 2019 14:14:54 +0300
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.6.1
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <337912501.12768.1558609139766@appsuite-gw1.open-xchange.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Language: en-US
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Virus-Scanned: by clamav at smarthost1.samage.net
X-Scan-Signature: 919fae14bc17c74543a025539baad412
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/pearg/JqfKN04davSbsw_fkLCtCegB9lk>
Subject: Re: [Pearg] descriptive censorship work: draft-hall-censorship-tech
X-BeenThere: pearg@irtf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: Privacy Enhancements and Assessment Proposed RG <pearg.irtf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.irtf.org/mailman/options/pearg>, <mailto:pearg-request@irtf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/pearg/>
List-Post: <mailto:pearg@irtf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:pearg-request@irtf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/pearg>, <mailto:pearg-request@irtf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 23 May 2019 11:15:04 -0000

Hi,

Just quickly,

On 23/05/2019 13:58, Vittorio Bertola wrote:
> 
>> Il 23 maggio 2019 10:51 Mallory Knodel <mallory@article19.org> ha
>> scritto:
>> 
>> Maybe it's the connotation or interpretation of the word
>> "censorship" that is getting in the way. It's all censorship, but
>> some of it might be legitimate (literally in accordance with law
>> and norms).
> 
> (*) I am using moral terms such as negative and positive because I
> guess that in authoritarian countries political censorship is
> "literally legitimate" :-) though this is also one of the hot policy
> issues, i.e. whether the IETF should work to disrupt some country's
> laws when they mandate censorship-the-one-we-all-really-dislike.

I should have framed this as an application of international human
rights (a standard), which therefore wouldn't condone political
censorship as legitimate.

-M
-- 
Mallory Knodel
Head of Digital :: article19.org
gpg fingerprint :: E3EB 63E0 65A3 B240 BCD9  B071 0C32 A271 BD3C C780