Re: [Pearg] descriptive censorship work: draft-hall-censorship-tech

Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie> Fri, 17 May 2019 22:37 UTC

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To: Shivan Sahib <ssahib@salesforce.com>
Cc: Joseph Lorenzo Hall <joe@cdt.org>, Stan Adams <sadams@cdt.org>, Nick Feamster <feamster@cs.princeton.edu>, pearg@irtf.org
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From: Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie>
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Date: Fri, 17 May 2019 23:36:51 +0100
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Subject: Re: [Pearg] descriptive censorship work: draft-hall-censorship-tech
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Hiya,

On 17/05/2019 22:00, Shivan Sahib wrote:
> Hi Stephen,
> 
> On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 12:58 AM Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie>
> wrote:
> 
>>
>> ...
>>
>> -1 to extending the scope. That could be done in other
>> documents, each of which would likely take some time. FWIW,
>> personally, I'd recommend just getting this one to the
>> RFC editor queue, pocketing the progress, and then the RG
>> can move on to new documents documenting other mechanisms
>> for and countering censorship.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> S.
>>
> 
> The suggestion to include censorship-countering techniques came up because
> of the concern that as the draft stands, it would not fall under PEARG's
> charter. Happy to hear disagreements about that though.

Sure. Up to you as chairs to decide of course, but ISTM that
this falls squarely into "Understanding attacks on privacy",
(this helping understanding), "Document research on new
and existing privacy assessment methodologies" (this
documenting research) and I'd consider at least some kinds
of censorship as a form of societal attack. So, FWIW, I'd
argue it's absolutely in scope of the charter. And I don't
think every RG work item needs to be proposing some new
mechanism.

Cheers,
S.

> 
> Thanks,
> Shivan
> 
> 
>>>
>>> On Tue, Mar 26, 2019 at 1:46 AM Joseph Lorenzo Hall <joe@cdt.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> (Bcc'ing SECDISPATCH and SAAG as an FYI; thread on PEARG)
>>>>
>>>> Hello, apologies for cross-posting.
>>>>
>>>> At IETF 91 in 2014 we presented some very early work before SAAG that
>>>> describes how global censors use protocols to censor data flows (block,
>>>> impair, modify, etc.). After some editing in subsequent years based on
>>>> superb feedback from SAAG folks (Stephane B., Andrew M., thank you!) we
>> had
>>>> tentative AD sponsorship and some thoughts that this was better on the
>> IETF
>>>> side of the house rather than in a RG.
>>>>
>>>> We've started to work on it again* and since the original draft we now
>>>> have SECDISPATCH to help "the misfit toys of security" find a home in
>> terms
>>>> of IETF process... I very briefly described this work yesterday in
>>>> SECDISPATCH and Chris Wood, the new PEARG co-chair, suggested that PEARG
>>>> would be a good place for this work since part of what they would like
>> to
>>>> do in that RG is document certain privacy-implicating things in the real
>>>> world.
>>>>
>>>> We don't really have a preference where this ends up -- there's even a
>>>> case to be made that given the dynamic nature of censorship that this
>> will
>>>> necessarily always be a work in progress. We have heard people find it
>>>> useful and PEARG seems as good as anywhere, and obviously the process to
>>>> get to an RG RFC would help it get better (at least that is my
>> impression!).
>>>>
>>>> Here is the current version of the draft and the repo we're using to
>> track
>>>> issues and version the doc:
>>>>
>>>> draft: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hall-censorship-tech-07
>>>> repo: https://github.com/josephlhall/rfc-censorship-tech
>>>>
>>>> Would love to hear if this is something people think PEARG would like to
>>>> work on and we have some ideas about additional documents in a series
>> like
>>>> this (e.g., having some real-world descriptive reference on research and
>>>> practice in terms of traffic analysis could be really useful for IETF
>>>> folks, I suspect.)
>>>>
>>>> Cheers! --Joe Hall
>>>>
>>>> (copying two co-authors, Stan from CDT and Nick from Princeton)
>>>>
>>>> * IASA2 has been a big focus of my own for the last two years.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Joseph Lorenzo Hall
>>>> Chief Technologist, Center for Democracy & Technology [
>> https://www.cdt.org
>>>> ]
>>>> 1401 K ST NW STE 200, Washington DC 20005-3497
>>>> e: joe@cdt.org, p: 202.407.8825, pgp: https://josephhall.org/gpg-key
>>>> Fingerprint: 3CA2 8D7B 9F6D DBD3 4B10  1607 5F86 6987 40A9 A871
>>>>
>>>> Don't miss out! CDT's Tech Prom is April 10, 2019, at The
>>>> Anthem. Please join us: https://cdt.org/annual-dinner/
>>>> --
>>>> Pearg mailing list
>>>> Pearg@irtf.org
>>>> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/pearg
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>