IETF Logo Mail Archive

Re: [Pearg] [saag] Ten years after Snowden (2013 - 2023), is IETF keeping its promises?

Dino Farinacci <farinacci@gmail.com> Thu, 05 January 2023 19:09 UTC

Return-Path: <farinacci@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: pearg@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: pearg@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52016C14F735; Thu, 5 Jan 2023 11:09:33 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.098
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([50.223.129.194]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BAGIbQDGWcFG; Thu, 5 Jan 2023 11:09:29 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-pf1-x433.google.com (mail-pf1-x433.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::433]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1290BC1524A2; Thu, 5 Jan 2023 11:09:29 -0800 (PST)
Received: by mail-pf1-x433.google.com with SMTP id y5so1006004pfe.2; Thu, 05 Jan 2023 11:09:29 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=to:references:message-id:content-transfer-encoding:cc:date :in-reply-to:from:subject:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=x+/snU6t9t6ZbOPZmVde5bt97ed/8mIpWkspj0VOqHc=; b=B2DYHDTcvaj8VNN4Ag0Azxs6NfUBOKx70yyQPHtA+PZckA1RrDZD8RJ3Elp5hYSTms Kbr3iQIPLshSiyfJxygrxbtg1zJonyxgGs+FKazkH2WvgrweaDHy9GYd9SdN5/mlyGLB kp/39oLF94GdUQHTRPxqJO3uIP04FUSzv0ovBcCPqyCU9ogv4Z4Xr2TM4zqUxryRXUnj vZ4PNXq5X2mpoj1gsPhS0siaI7Iv5QYBM58tgGYTIwxWMxkWkGH8q1E5RvoK2q+Lj/O4 9yDVfimqkfxBGzSlehGshq0I8rZwMaTcQcCOSrmMJbZE9gsp1ISH5jgmMHCzA0ubTqFf 4VYQ==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=to:references:message-id:content-transfer-encoding:cc:date :in-reply-to:from:subject:mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=x+/snU6t9t6ZbOPZmVde5bt97ed/8mIpWkspj0VOqHc=; b=2GAxPrvwihcE94RvPYtEG/xBNh6Ow6CbrzOUgHdxs7tBZ0/2AxO222QvRM21Fev59i jmwRlvQ457+ofDw8/vmWoAzbhj6NhM6grInbpUaITrxy+W/7zDOyspn/EdwNw+ucpidG Oc3RxoDiS8AD1inj7Ie4Qr41XQL9BZGUARCIjdvq0O41tS8P3wEjYAVVvnuhLr5BLfK3 QJWRYU32EItOQOsZ34BHhNkiMlmdNd5hOFykArVjzifO2dg/nDoUOXN9EpF2egmV/bDR hj1zBLh3bYcscXin3NuLCPp3kWFJM+as6w0kMMl/LRacNwrBBYA0+tTMG2lUm86Zt2cf 9JrA==
X-Gm-Message-State: AFqh2kr3AbA54q3nk/3HovHWq+MXwTVbHM0hR+VUjOpEks9BVnWeA6RD eZ8BCEkqHRghiPSnVVsoraY=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: AMrXdXvX75zlZQGqNjGm8Q8gcNGXlln30Qm2o2kBCxes4ojNNw+B5V4YgAlp5RFMk2KSnGI3EdP1wg==
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6a00:1245:b0:581:ad35:406f with SMTP id u5-20020a056a00124500b00581ad35406fmr27857071pfi.21.1672945768422; Thu, 05 Jan 2023 11:09:28 -0800 (PST)
Received: from smtpclient.apple (c-98-234-33-188.hsd1.ca.comcast.net. [98.234.33.188]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id i13-20020a62870d000000b00581d7ef91b2sm13921019pfe.20.2023.01.05.11.09.27 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 05 Jan 2023 11:09:27 -0800 (PST)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3696.120.41.1.1\))
From: Dino Farinacci <farinacci@gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <1F71EB99-3657-4A20-8B28-2AFB743A9762@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2023 11:09:24 -0800
Cc: George Michaelson <ggm@algebras.org>, Lloyd W <lloyd.wood=40yahoo.co.uk@dmarc.ietf.org>, Antoine FRESSANCOURT <antoine.fressancourt=40huawei.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, IETF Discussion Mailing List <ietf@ietf.org>, pearg@irtf.org, John Mattsson <john.mattsson=40ericsson.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, saag <saag@ietf.org>, hrpc@irtf.org
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Message-Id: <1B0A222E-21E5-413E-8B2C-9C0CBCDB0773@gmail.com>
References: <3c3230f3783b4ec9a8a9e3bb87cc2a8d@huawei.com> <08C49067-DB4C-41AB-A6F3-B96BDBE0A4BC@yahoo.co.uk> <CAKr6gn0tFXEV-h7LH1_Ts5iQRw_mGEi=TqS7hsyK-SqDFmmY-A@mail.gmail.com> <C09B3D18-2871-491F-B76C-630A2DCA439A@gmail.com> <EFCEFAA6-3638-4CE0-91DD-3E38FE00DF29@gmail.com> <1F71EB99-3657-4A20-8B28-2AFB743A9762@gmail.com>
To: Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3696.120.41.1.1)
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/pearg/dhJpSu_Wg3nGAGnUboo2xJ0BQOw>
Subject: Re: [Pearg] [saag] Ten years after Snowden (2013 - 2023), is IETF keeping its promises?
X-BeenThere: pearg@irtf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.39
Precedence: list
List-Id: Privacy Enhancements and Assessment Proposed RG <pearg.irtf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.irtf.org/mailman/options/pearg>, <mailto:pearg-request@irtf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/pearg/>
List-Post: <mailto:pearg@irtf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:pearg-request@irtf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/pearg>, <mailto:pearg-request@irtf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2023 19:09:33 -0000

> I suppose that you have to question whether IP is the ideal base for multicast?

There are many ways to provide a group communication model to applications.

> Our networks are no longer mono-protocol and multicast tends to be domain specific. 

Yes, but the IP headers are the same in all of them. 

> Many of the original uses for multicast are now dominated by unicast packet duplication with edge computing making this less of a bandwidth hog, so it is not clear what the long term future of multicast is.

Not on Wall Street. But you will say that is domain specific, and that's okay. 

Should we really be building an IP header or have semantics on an IP header for different domains?

Dino

v2.28.0 | Report a Bug | By Email | System Status