Re: [Pearg] descriptive censorship work: draft-hall-censorship-tech

Mallory Knodel <mallory@article19.org> Mon, 20 May 2019 10:26 UTC

Return-Path: <mallory@article19.org>
X-Original-To: pearg@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: pearg@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD78412018F for <pearg@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 20 May 2019 03:26:16 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.9
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id y5IDgOIS0LUv for <pearg@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 20 May 2019 03:26:14 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from smarthost1.greenhost.nl (smarthost1.greenhost.nl [195.190.28.88]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8573312019B for <pearg@irtf.org>; Mon, 20 May 2019 03:26:14 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from smtp.greenhost.nl ([213.108.110.112]) by smarthost1.greenhost.nl with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from <mallory@article19.org>) id 1hSfUE-0008Ia-7Q for pearg@irtf.org; Mon, 20 May 2019 12:26:12 +0200
To: pearg@irtf.org
References: <CABtrr-Ubq5z_Nx4-VA7gLgGMaxOBvfpSpXKJfeO9Q9C9eCA8Fg@mail.gmail.com> <CAJm22JazQHLN=zZ_RpAwYX5AcUuws6nan-4jShzLwSbz2ysHsQ@mail.gmail.com> <e88b630d-b979-185b-e744-977ab080baad@cs.tcd.ie> <1397790134.3745.1558087203082@appsuite-dev-gw2.open-xchange.com> <d1dd5c3a-ba10-406e-d7d7-fc8c07d7ea10@article19.org> <542887485.4822.1558343428572@appsuite-dev-gw2.open-xchange.com>
From: Mallory Knodel <mallory@article19.org>
Openpgp: preference=signencrypt
Autocrypt: addr=mallory@article19.org; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQENBEx0TWcBCAC8sirY3nlDnRwY6XWmsvZtM9kmEK6H8no3ZuQ723PKwHOddw1nOykh0in/ /QGRmwtyVzsfLh6/94UUZTn10oo+xGAfw2gf1on5IJTIiphykk732PNnUakVGWwHNKQquTVc kLrydUaFVMb89BAXqExBKlMg2ciEjzbYMCs3I/qZAZ0Wr5nF3RQS8O78elTNAgWTZ98yKTZV DlRoDpnvbfwtIPqnISoSjDEvEUBdpykvS3jHqlR1f6Mx6Xs97S5CORaer/0qTcDm0PAb1Z9l IhMsFl05tNt2FpgS4/RN8NyLasAQNOlScpTJbAfRuyyvRm1N8GLIL1KX+YYeLyqzhdhZABEB AAG0Jk1hbGxvcnkgS25vZGVsIDxtYWxsb3J5QGFydGljbGUxOS5vcmc+iQFWBBMBCABAAhsD BwsJCAcDAgEGFQgCCQoLBBYCAwECHgECF4AWIQTj62PgZaOyQLzZsHEMMqJxvTzHgAUCXH1h mgUJEepHrwAKCRAMMqJxvTzHgH3DCAC1sjJmg4+/VcESEzNkiF3KHEDCAssEaQl2FWfuXVvJ /mPliFtjpVv6EhdgUG5lbOcu12TCUWg42wHkE2kbDWXLE3f7HL+Nq0pEPVdMRXLxEfaOs2oR KGx8lh4k1UgYEpnARI486TklOAONKWdJKstEPrtt9LtysnjvhZvYCTzLKJC98c5wUvC46QYy +NdK6GB+uyVzW5kP2uUUBYxiCyHivGBbv77jcJAFVAk96ut1GFpeCCZM2WyYzer95b9n9a1B UGdJgEEVVbbBIQw7yMbMPqEwa8rpfig7QG72GieYItQjllHXGbOECiBcOHrGtrFWsHWxOxJV bZSoVq6sn1UUuQENBEx0TWcBCADiak/YuMW4BbaWL0U9sNg4zO3Qy1OFeye8fJjR8O/wWVSq cqA+sxjzRUee2fHCp6kVLedy6dVfiKmr59p21r4selOdslKaWmEGtz2oYnGpyPB/jKjfleE5 cIkXCdqgDAhfbfuVdF7heHpfhUy4m3yOJl2+CluT/CG9AfaCtyrwqMJzLWK4vmkGXxnBgb92 mGK0WFB2oRydz+SsiobgpCAqJSLcr8ZHQ54SbD9yxxYPv8IsSjt4eJoZCFI7INBsz4i7aj/q 4xcxQ+xiUwyqCZUvrzMxpw7c8TXuPHStDyhnsKkFjxhlY5avNeu0VPwk72C64I+y93gpPrL3 vL0tEmU9ABEBAAGJATwEGAECACYCGwwWIQTj62PgZaOyQLzZsHEMMqJxvTzHgAUCXH1hmgUJ EepHswAKCRAMMqJxvTzHgEDZCACcTamfNdBACpPHsmsJL1hbWertwYZg7h2rZtgmZQ9C2PMT OgkPPSsfi+xZ6PaXlvm2RI/TX51LbJsCJ9Fd2/WxKdtC0s6o7+0Cl3P57AORf3BRfl3zfXuy VhzjLvM9WhDiQM6JBqDuYxiYnjO56l+gozEuBAtUJaPIxGyggyS5eT8kKv8Szpc4g7/skZXq ccVOHj05KCOaFQ774rsIzcwppqJqGjh9X6nX6m2DONuBIYNXjH9U6FxHSJ6gRRxZkiz2/dDZ YqsHYlkKigH82r9gORhIGZkCd7xnRhyLOHnjjeKtIy5pvGwxUohy+y5l8i1155JEPNB7pphY xFxjMOQU
Message-ID: <58b015ab-4003-49b5-a46a-2fc0e9633ccf@article19.org>
Date: Mon, 20 May 2019 13:25:39 +0300
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.6.1
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <542887485.4822.1558343428572@appsuite-dev-gw2.open-xchange.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Content-Language: en-US
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Virus-Scanned: by clamav at smarthost1.samage.net
X-Scan-Signature: 4b95630a2805109a2fafe329e7ec4fd6
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/pearg/hkQ8JUDQ2hBPvAODhkXz9Aoh_aY>
Subject: Re: [Pearg] descriptive censorship work: draft-hall-censorship-tech
X-BeenThere: pearg@irtf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: Privacy Enhancements and Assessment Proposed RG <pearg.irtf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.irtf.org/mailman/options/pearg>, <mailto:pearg-request@irtf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/pearg/>
List-Post: <mailto:pearg@irtf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:pearg-request@irtf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/pearg>, <mailto:pearg-request@irtf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 May 2019 10:26:21 -0000

Hi,

On 20/05/2019 12:10, Vittorio Bertola wrote:
> 
>> Il 19 maggio 2019 03:37 Amelia Andersdotter <amelia@article19.org>
>> ha scritto:
>> 
>> To be fair, Facebook faces fines in the order of tens of millions
>> of euros if they fail to block something they should have blocked. 
>> Over-blocking has indeed been a persistent concern among those
>> groups who have argued that blocking is not a good solution to any
>> particular content moderation problem.
> 
> It's true that, in the end, most independent blocking decisions by
> private companies derive from the fear of legal trouble, which by
> definition derives from a law and thus from a political/governmental
> decision. So I see why you could argue that most private censorship
> still indirectly derives from governmental pressure (the other big
> case I see is that of pro-intellectual-property upload filters, which
> until a couple of months ago were not legally mandated, but were
> privately adopted to avoid potential litigation with copyright
> owners; but one could say that this was still a consequence of a
> legal framework biased in favour of protecting commercial IP
> rights).

I think that for the purposes of this draft it's useful to keep only the
text that is related to policy decisions enacted technically. Because:

> There are however a few cases in which it's quite hard to establish
> this connection; think for example of the Google Shopping case[1],
> which IMHO is indeed a form of private censorship. This does not
> derive from indirect legal pressure - on the contrary, it was ruled
> as illegal - but only comes as a consequence of private business
> interests.

I can imagine a lot of cases in which platforms remove content that is
benign but irrelevant. If I run a social media network that is about
parenting, I'm probably going to have a code of conduct or terms of
service that gives me the right to remove content that is extraneous to
this topic. Spam, too.

I think that we sometimes forget that some platforms are contextually
specific. But that usually these are defined by community standards.

-Mallory

-- 
Mallory Knodel
Head of Digital :: article19.org
gpg fingerprint :: E3EB 63E0 65A3 B240 BCD9  B071 0C32 A271 BD3C C780