Re: [Pearg] Call for adoption: draft-learmonth-pearg-safe-internet-measurement-02.txt

Vittorio Bertola <vittorio.bertola@open-xchange.com> Mon, 27 May 2019 15:23 UTC

Return-Path: <vittorio.bertola@open-xchange.com>
X-Original-To: pearg@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: pearg@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2353D12015F for <pearg@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 27 May 2019 08:23:26 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -3.576
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.576 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=0.723, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=open-xchange.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 245dfVFZR1FO for <pearg@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 27 May 2019 08:23:24 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mx4.open-xchange.com (alcatraz.open-xchange.com [87.191.39.187]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2E7A6120199 for <pearg@irtf.org>; Mon, 27 May 2019 08:23:24 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from open-xchange.com (imap.open-xchange.com [10.20.30.10]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx4.open-xchange.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3CD396A28D; Mon, 27 May 2019 17:23:21 +0200 (CEST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=open-xchange.com; s=201705; t=1558970601; bh=G2TJP9vSuF0i36a715fzKt69a3WJbwOr6zzKvqUmmHE=; h=Date:From:Reply-To:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:From; b=OgaDTO0BaFFewuwmseo+Q80vup+1Pax0eQQiRhxdW2HsSCOJ6uHwCrJ6O9QDFTwag yqGo5aUlLjC0GiV7UwNYhB3gLRSsvAs6Ajm93np9jbbjIj5P8Z8DxHu98qNGY5VT0j hsZTexwlX8e6/dzVhJFjXKvEV4NZ/HShL+UAeC/qZK3OssPT/Xv/+qsRBf14k2u8V9 wJFxMAPqrCka7Hzg2O05gLun0zw7WMD0BAO84fym1WU+GFPKs1SPMzIgnUvqVpD52p heQkXlTfHc2Zpvk6SuP9KG0RofUsekSIl+tKmAOHO8U8Ek9K6PdsN6yRuDumoeijEb K3jP2BH5kloHg==
Received: from appsuite-gw1.open-xchange.com (appsuite-gw1.open-xchange.com [10.20.28.81]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by open-xchange.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 2F7563C0290; Mon, 27 May 2019 17:23:21 +0200 (CEST)
Date: Mon, 27 May 2019 17:23:21 +0200
From: Vittorio Bertola <vittorio.bertola@open-xchange.com>
Reply-To: Vittorio Bertola <vittorio.bertola@open-xchange.com>
To: Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com>
Cc: "pearg@irtf.org" <pearg@irtf.org>
Message-ID: <309616304.24548.1558970601133@appsuite-gw1.open-xchange.com>
In-Reply-To: <CABcZeBNNh3pwSTiF7QX3eoeZkoWi0YTa63YBYeiSEfgHTQeFLQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <155800230363.19745.1496619794666703625.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <6d285cf5-4c38-b6ef-66dd-a0fd1c207268@torproject.org> <AF390529-6D66-4679-9572-83BDB1753DEE@sinodun.com> <CABcZeBNNh3pwSTiF7QX3eoeZkoWi0YTa63YBYeiSEfgHTQeFLQ@mail.gmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
Importance: Medium
X-Mailer: Open-Xchange Mailer v7.10.2-Rev4
X-Originating-Client: open-xchange-appsuite
Autocrypt: addr=vittorio.bertola@open-xchange.com; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQENBFhFR+UBCACfoywFKBRfzasiiR9/6dwY36eLePXcdScumDMR8qoXvRS55QYDjp5bs+yMq41qWV9 xp/cqryY9jnvHbeF3TsE5yEazpD1dleRbkpElUBpPwXqkrSP8uXO9KkS9KoX6gdml6M4L+F82WpqYC1 uTzOE6HPmhmQ4cGSgoia2jolxAhRpzoYN99/BwpvoZeTSLP5K6yPlMPYkMev/uZlAkMMhelli9IN6yA yxcC0AeHSnOAcNKUr13yXyMlTyi1cdMJ4sk88zIbefxwg3PAtYjkz3wgvP96cNVwAgSt4+j/ZuVaENP pgVuM512m051j9SlspWDHtzrci5pBKKFsibnTelrABEBAAG0NUJlcnRvbGEsIFZpdHRvcmlvIDx2aXR 0b3Jpby5iZXJ0b2xhQG9wZW4teGNoYW5nZS5jb20+iQFABBMBAgAqBAsJCAcGFQoJCAsCBRYCAwEAAp 4BAhsDBYkSzAMABQMAAAAABYJYRUflAAoJEIU2cHmzj8qNaG0H/ROY+suCP86hoN+9RIV66Ej8b3sb8 UgwFJOJMupZfeb9yTIJwE4VQT5lTt146CcJJ5jvxD6FZn1Htw9y4/45pPAF7xLE066jg3OqRvzeWRZ3 IDUfJJIiM5YGk1xWxDqppSwhnKcMOuI72iioWxX0nGQrWxpnWJsjt08IEEwuYucDkul1PHsrLJbTd58 fiMKLVwag+IE1SPHOwkPF6arZQZIfB5ThtOZV+36Jn8Hok9XfeXWBVyPkiWCQYVX39QsIbr0JNR9kQy 4g2ZFexOcTe8Jo12jPRL7V8OqStdDes3cje9lWFLnX05nrfLuE0l0JKWEg8akN+McFXc+oV68h7nu5A Q0EWEVH5QEIAIDKanNBe1uRfk8AjLirflZO291VNkOAeUu+dIhecGnZeQW6htlDinlYOnXhtsY1mK9W PUu+xshDq7lXn2G0LxldYwyJYZaJtDgIKqVqwxfA34Lj27oqPuXwcvGhdCgt0SW/YcalRdAi0/AzUCu 5GSaj2kaGUSnBYYUP4szGJXjaK2psP5toQSCtx2pfSXQ6MaqPK9Zzy+D5xc6VWQRp/iRImodAcPf8fg JJvRyJ8Jla3lKWyvBBzJDg6MOf6Fts78bJSt23X0uPp93g7GgbYkuRMnFI4RGoTVkxjD/HBEJ0CNg22 hoHJondhmKnZVrHEluFuSnW0wBEIYomcPSPB+cAEQEAAYkBMQQYAQIAGwUCWEVH5QIbDAQLCQgHBhUK CQgLAgUJEswDAAAKCRCFNnB5s4/KjdO8B/wNpvWtOpLdotR/Xh4fu08Fd63nnNfbIGIETWsVi0Sbr8i E5duuGaaWIcMmUvgKe/BM0Fpj9X01Zjm90uoPrlVVuQWrf+vFlbalUYVZr51gl5UyUFHk+iAZCAA0WB rsmACKvuV1P7GuiX3UV9b59T9taYJxN3dNFuftrEuvsqHimFtlekUjUwoCekTJdncFusBhwz2OrKhHr WWrEsXkfh0+pURWYAlKlTxvXuI7gAfHEQM+6OnrWvXYtlhd0M1sBPnCjbyG63Qws7Rek9bEWKtH6dA6 dmT2FQT+g1S9Mdf0WkPTQNX0x24dm8IoHuD3KYwX7Svx43Xa17aZnXqUjtj1
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/pearg/lSjyCNYB5BywPdmemPwFl5gC-1I>
Subject: Re: [Pearg] Call for adoption: draft-learmonth-pearg-safe-internet-measurement-02.txt
X-BeenThere: pearg@irtf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: Privacy Enhancements and Assessment Proposed RG <pearg.irtf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.irtf.org/mailman/options/pearg>, <mailto:pearg-request@irtf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/pearg/>
List-Post: <mailto:pearg@irtf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:pearg-request@irtf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/pearg>, <mailto:pearg-request@irtf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 May 2019 15:23:26 -0000


Il 27 maggio 2019 15:34 Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com> ha scritto:


S 2. CONSENT
The text in this draft leans pretty heavily on getting consent,
either direct consent (including all users of the shared network)
or "proxy consent".

However, many of these kinds of studies don't really lend themselves
to detailed consent from individual users of the browser -- let alone
to from every user on the network they are on. As a concrete example,
ad-type studies don't generally get any kind of consent at all.  For
instance, here's the experimental setup for APNIC's DNSSEC
measurements: https://labs.apnic.net/?p=341" rel="nofollow">https://labs.apnic.net/?p=341

    The experiment uses an online advertisement campaign to deliver
    the test code to end systems. When the end system is passed an ad
    that is carrying the experiment the system runs embedded Adobe
    Flash code. The code is executed when the ad is passed to the
    user, and does not rely on a user "click" or any other user
    trigger action. The active code interrogates one of two experiment
    controllers by performing a URL fetch. The contents of the fetched
    experiment control URL are a dynamically generated sequence of
    four URLs. These four URLs are the substance of the test setup.

It's worth noting at this point that the Web is a platform for running
remote code, and by browsing you're opting into that, and ad studies
just leverage that behavior.
That's not very accurate, at least under European regulations. It's not "by browsing you're opting into that", it's rather that each website shows you a cookie consent popup, and that's where you provide your consent and opt into receiving various types of cookies, including the ones that make ad-based experiments work. If you reject advertising/customization cookies, of course the ad-based experiment should not work. On top of that, the text asking for consent to these cookies should specify that you will not just be shown customized ads, but that personal information about you will be collected.

By the way, the fact that "these kinds of studies don't really lend themselves
to detailed consent from individual users of the browser" is not a legally valid justification for doing these studies without explicit user consent, at least if they collect personal information and unless they fall into a well specified set of exceptions.

Ciao,

--

Vittorio Bertola | Head of Policy & Innovation, Open-Xchange
vittorio.bertola@open-xchange.com
Office @ Via Treviso 12, 10144 Torino, Italy