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Re: [Pearg] [Secdispatch] Numeric IDs: Update to RFC3552

Fernando Gont <fgont@si6networks.com> Thu, 18 April 2019 22:03 UTC

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To: Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com>
Cc: IETF SecDispatch <secdispatch@ietf.org>, secdispatch-chairs@ietf.org, pearg@irtf.org, "Iván Arce (Quarkslab)" <iarce@quarkslab.com>
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From: Fernando Gont <fgont@si6networks.com>
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Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2019 23:50:03 +0200
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Subject: Re: [Pearg] [Secdispatch] Numeric IDs: Update to RFC3552
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On 18/4/19 15:45, Eric Rescorla wrote:
> 
> 
> On Tue, Apr 16, 2019 at 2:07 AM Fernando Gont <fgont@si6networks.com
> <mailto:fgont@si6networks.com>> wrote:
> 
>     Folks,
> 
>     At the last secdispatch meeting I presented our I-D
>     draft-gont-predictable-numeric-ids.
> 
>     >From the meeting discussion, it would seem to me that there is support
>     for this work.
> 
>     It would also seem to me that part of this work is to be pursued in an
>     appropriate IRTF rg, while the update to RFC3552
>     (draft-gont-numeric-ids-sec-considerations) should be pursued as an
>     AD-sponsored document.
> 
> 
> I'm somewhat skeptical on an update to 3552; the proposed set of things
> to be improved seems unclear.

Can you please state what's unclear?

We have 30+ years of history of screwing up numeric identifiers in the
protocols we specify.

Just to name a few:
* TCP ISNs
* TCP ephemeral ports
* DNS TxIDs
* IPv4 Frag IDs
* IPv6 Frag IDs
* IPv6 IIDs
* NTP port numbers
* NTP timestamps
* TCP timestamps

... and the list can continue.


We are trying, for once and for all, to act proactively in this respect,
to avoid repeating the same history in every protocol we specify, and
every implementation that comes up.



> I don't think that the material in this document should be added to
> 3552, as the purpose of 3552 is not really to go into that kind of
> detail about any specific topic.

What I would expect is that RFC3552 helps prevent us from coming up with
vulnerable implementations. Clearly, the history of flawed IDs seems to
indicate that we are doing something wrong.

At the time of this writing, it seems that RFC3552 is the document that
draft/RFC authors are required to read when it comes to how to do a
security analysis of their document. So I am curious why you think this
doesn't belong to RFC3552.

That said, this document is *updating* RFC3552, rather than a revision
of RFC3552. Therefore, the content in this document wouldn't become part
of RFC3552, necessarily.

Thanks,
-- 
Fernando Gont
SI6 Networks
e-mail: fgont@si6networks.com
PGP Fingerprint: 6666 31C6 D484 63B2 8FB1 E3C4 AE25 0D55 1D4E 7492

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