Re: [Pearg] [saag] Ten years after Snowden (2013 - 2023), is IETF keeping its promises?
Alec Muffett <alec.muffett@gmail.com> Mon, 09 January 2023 12:00 UTC
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From: Alec Muffett <alec.muffett@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2023 12:00:09 +0000
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To: Vittorio Bertola <vittorio.bertola=40open-xchange.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
Cc: Mark Nottingham <mnot=40mnot.net@dmarc.ietf.org>, ietf@ietf.org, hrpc@irtf.org, pearg@irtf.org, saag <saag@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Pearg] [saag] Ten years after Snowden (2013 - 2023), is IETF keeping its promises?
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ps: ... On Mon, 9 Jan 2023 at 11:33, Alec Muffett <alec.muffett@gmail.com> wrote: > On Mon, 9 Jan 2023, 11:14 Vittorio Bertola, <vittorio.bertola= > 40open-xchange.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote: > >> > who are you, the IETF or your employer to judge or question what a >> sovereign nation of 5-10-80 million people decides for themselves through >> democratic processes? Who gave you this right and this role, and how is >> this compatible with democracy? >> > > I am a software engineer. I write code and occasionally people find it > useful in their daily lives. Very occasionally it might become intensely > popular, but no more than Shakespeare's, Moliere's or Goethe's works, which > people also find likewise popular. > > Who voted for them to write literature which people enjoy? > In case people think I am exaggerating, or if folk lack enough history: I used to be the "cryptographic moderator" for the comp.sources.misc USENET group. I literally personally approved* the posting of Eric Young's "libdes" to USENET, which begat SSLeay, which begat OpenSSL. If you're old enough, you will also remember when "SSH" was a new thing posted by some guy in Finland named Tatu Ylonen, rather than the bedrock of multi-millions (-billions?) of dollars of secure communication. Not to mention Phil and PGP and the "export it as an OCR-capable book" thing. All of this stuff started small. Who is now telling us that it should have been voted into existence, because it might have "democratic impact" in ways that popular literature might not? "Gosh, next you'll be arguing that code does not qualify as speech." <ducks/> - alec [*] https://www.funet.fi/pub/misc/archive/comp.sources.misc/volume29/libdes/part01.gz -- https://alecmuffett.com/about
- [Pearg] Ten years after Snowden (2013 - 2023), is… John Mattsson
- Re: [Pearg] Ten years after Snowden (2013 - 2023)… Christopher Wood
- Re: [Pearg] Ten years after Snowden (2013 - 2023)… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Pearg] Ten years after Snowden (2013 - 2023)… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [Pearg] Ten years after Snowden (2013 - 2023)… Christian Huitema
- Re: [Pearg] [saag] Ten years after Snowden (2013 … Dino Farinacci
- Re: [Pearg] Ten years after Snowden (2013 - 2023)… Dave Taht
- Re: [Pearg] [hrpc] Ten years after Snowden (2013 … Adrian Gropper
- Re: [Pearg] [saag] Ten years after Snowden (2013 … Stewart Bryant
- Re: [Pearg] [saag] Ten years after Snowden (2013 … Eliot Lear
- Re: [Pearg] [saag] Ten years after Snowden (2013 … Antoine FRESSANCOURT
- Re: [Pearg] [saag] Ten years after Snowden (2013 … Lloyd W
- Re: [Pearg] [saag] Ten years after Snowden (2013 … George Michaelson
- Re: [Pearg] [hrpc] Ten years after Snowden (2013 … Niels ten Oever
- Re: [Pearg] Ten years after Snowden (2013 - 2023)… Vittorio Bertola
- Re: [Pearg] Ten years after Snowden (2013 - 2023)… Dave Taht
- Re: [Pearg] [saag] Ten years after Snowden (2013 … Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [Pearg] Ten years after Snowden (2013 - 2023)… John Mattsson
- Re: [Pearg] [saag] Ten years after Snowden (2013 … Stewart Bryant
- Re: [Pearg] [saag] Ten years after Snowden (2013 … Eric Rescorla
- Re: [Pearg] [saag] Ten years after Snowden (2013 … Christian Huitema
- Re: [Pearg] [saag] Ten years after Snowden (2013 … Dino Farinacci
- Re: [Pearg] [saag] Ten years after Snowden (2013 … Dino Farinacci
- Re: [Pearg] [saag] Ten years after Snowden (2013 … Dino Farinacci
- Re: [Pearg] [saag] Ten years after Snowden (2013 … Eliot Lear
- Re: [Pearg] [saag] Ten years after Snowden (2013 … Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Pearg] [saag] Ten years after Snowden (2013 … Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [Pearg] [saag] Ten years after Snowden (2013 … Tony Rutkowski
- Re: [Pearg] [saag] Ten years after Snowden (2013 … Vittorio Bertola
- Re: [Pearg] [saag] Ten years after Snowden (2013 … Ted Hardie
- Re: [Pearg] [saag] Ten years after Snowden (2013 … John Mattsson
- Re: [Pearg] [saag] Ten years after Snowden (2013 … Tony Rutkowski
- Re: [Pearg] [saag] Ten years after Snowden (2013 … Brad Chen
- Re: [Pearg] [saag] Ten years after Snowden (2013 … Kyle Rose
- Re: [Pearg] [saag] Ten years after Snowden (2013 … Antoine FRESSANCOURT
- Re: [Pearg] [saag] Ten years after Snowden (2013 … Eric Rescorla
- Re: [Pearg] [saag] Ten years after Snowden (2013 … Brad Chen
- Re: [Pearg] [saag] Ten years after Snowden (2013 … Tony Rutkowski
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- Re: [Pearg] [saag] Ten years after Snowden (2013 … Tony Rutkowski
- Re: [Pearg] [saag] Ten years after Snowden (2013 … Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [Pearg] [EXT] Re: [saag] Ten years after Snow… Vittorio Bertola
- Re: [Pearg] [saag] Ten years after Snowden (2013 … Alan DeKok
- Re: [Pearg] [saag] Ten years after Snowden (2013 … Dave Taht
- Re: [Pearg] [saag] Ten years after Snowden (2013 … Tony Rutkowski
- Re: [Pearg] [hrpc] Ten years after Snowden (2013 … Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Pearg] [saag] Ten years after Snowden (2013 … Dino Farinacci
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- Re: [Pearg] [saag] Ten years after Snowden (2013 … Mark Nottingham
- Re: [Pearg] [hrpc] [saag] Ten years after Snowden… Abdussalam Baryun
- Re: [Pearg] [saag] Ten years after Snowden (2013 … Brad Chen
- Re: [Pearg] [hrpc] [saag] Ten years after Snowden… Laurence Lundblade
- Re: [Pearg] [saag] Ten years after Snowden (2013 … Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [Pearg] [saag] Ten years after Snowden (2013 … Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [Pearg] [hrpc] [saag] Ten years after Snowden… Adrian Gropper
- Re: [Pearg] [saag] Ten years after Snowden (2013 … Dino Farinacci
- Re: [Pearg] [saag] [hrpc] Ten years after Snowden… Tony Rutkowski
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- Re: [Pearg] [saag] Ten years after Snowden (2013 … Dan Harkins
- Re: [Pearg] [saag] Ten years after Snowden (2013 … Vittorio Bertola
- Re: [Pearg] [saag] Ten years after Snowden (2013 … Alec Muffett
- Re: [Pearg] [saag] Ten years after Snowden (2013 … Tony Rutkowski
- Re: [Pearg] [saag] Ten years after Snowden (2013 … Alec Muffett
- Re: [Pearg] [saag] Ten years after Snowden (2013 … Mark Nottingham
- Re: [Pearg] [hrpc] [saag] Ten years after Snowden… Vittorio Bertola
- Re: [Pearg] [hrpc] [saag] Ten years after Snowden… Ted Lemon
- Re: [Pearg] [saag] Ten years after Snowden (2013 … Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [Pearg] [hrpc] [saag] Ten years after Snowden… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [Pearg] [saag] Ten years after Snowden (2013 … Tony Rutkowski
- Re: [Pearg] [saag] Ten years after Snowden (2013 … Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [Pearg] [saag] Ten years after Snowden (2013 … Tony Rutkowski
- Re: [Pearg] [saag] Ten years after Snowden (2013 … Lloyd W
- Re: [Pearg] [saag] Ten years after Snowden (2013 … Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [Pearg] Ten years after Snowden (2013 - 2023)… Fernando Gont
- Re: [Pearg] [saag] Ten years after Snowden (2013 … Fernando Gont
- Re: [Pearg] [saag] Ten years after Snowden (2013 … Luigi Iannone
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