Re: [perpass] Tiny stacks
Phillip Hallam-Baker <hallam@gmail.com> Tue, 10 December 2013 00:43 UTC
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References: <290E20B455C66743BE178C5C84F1240847E5103799@EXMB01CMS.surrey.ac.uk> <2C66A416-5F07-4803-A4C0-BB61734BA42E@nominum.com> <290E20B455C66743BE178C5C84F1240847E510379A@EXMB01CMS.surrey.ac.uk> <529F7690.2050302@gmx.net> <290E20B455C66743BE178C5C84F1240847E510379C@EXMB01CMS.surrey.ac.uk> <52A1BBBC.9090509@cs.tcd.ie> <290E20B455C66743BE178C5C84F1240847E510379D@EXMB01CMS.surrey.ac.uk> <52A4D7D9.9000603@cs.tcd.ie> <52A4E412.4030804@gmail.com> <72B86100-E73E-46BD-ABD6-8E35D56DBDDA@cisco.com> <52A61E4C.6020403@gmail.com> <52A62E98.2060705@gmx.net> <52A63CF9.7020303@gmail.com> <CAL02cgRYNNC7Emx=98a621PTPHDweLRTc=wjVhpRo-5yhVD=-Q@mail.gmail.com> <52A65049.2070903@cs.tcd.ie> <52A66042.9060801@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2013 19:43:21 -0500
Message-ID: <CAMm+LwhQXewmAX4-uAVABRs64cTcS3jiNx1nReUh+Q6B9HCH-w@mail.gmail.com>
From: Phillip Hallam-Baker <hallam@gmail.com>
To: Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
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Cc: Richard Barnes <rlb@ipv.sx>, "Stewart Bryant (stbryant)" <stbryant@cisco.com>, perpass <perpass@ietf.org>, Hannes Tschofenig <hannes.tschofenig@gmx.net>, Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie>
Subject: Re: [perpass] Tiny stacks
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On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 7:28 PM, Brian E Carpenter < brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> wrote: > On 10/12/2013 12:20, Stephen Farrell wrote: > ... > > Its not directly relevant to pervasive monitoring, but IMO the > > worst security thing about tiny devices is the lack of s/w or > > firmware update. Without that, we're basically screwed istm. And > > we don't look like we're getting that, not even in proprietary > > flavours. Or maybe I'm out of date on that? Would love to be. > > We're not screwed if (and only if) such devices can only communicate > with the rest of the world via some larger box. That needs to > include all forms of communication, of course, including near-field, > to avoid walk-by snooping. > > Indeed I am not sure that's possible. At some point we'll need > to start suspecting give-away pens of being surveillance devices > distributed by the thousand. We are already at that point with USB memory sticks. Quite a few have ended up being corrupted with malware. There is certainly a need here and it is significant. But I think the answers are going to have to be regulation and audits and the like. What we can do about this in the IETF is quite limited. What we could do is to have some sort of device registration protocol whereby the device gains access to the network by first proposing a 'contract' specifying all the ports and protocols it is going to speak. The network infrastructure could then default-deny any access outside that contract. This would then reduce the audit task from observing the behavior of the device to checking the facilities it asks for and seeing if they are acceptable. -- Website: http://hallambaker.com/
- [perpass] Commnets on draft-farrell-perpass-attac… l.wood
- Re: [perpass] Commnets on draft-farrell-perpass-a… Ted Lemon
- Re: [perpass] Commnets on draft-farrell-perpass-a… Bruce Perens
- Re: [perpass] Commnets on draft-farrell-perpass-a… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [perpass] Commnets on draft-farrell-perpass-a… l.wood
- Re: [perpass] Commnets on draft-farrell-perpass-a… Ted Lemon
- Re: [perpass] Commnets on draft-farrell-perpass-a… Theodore Ts'o
- Re: [perpass] Commnets on draft-farrell-perpass-a… Hannes Tschofenig
- Re: [perpass] Commnets on draft-farrell-perpass-a… Bruce Perens
- Re: [perpass] Commnets on draft-farrell-perpass-a… Bruce Perens
- Re: [perpass] Commnets on draft-farrell-perpass-a… Mark Nottingham
- Re: [perpass] Commnets on draft-farrell-perpass-a… Bruce Perens
- Re: [perpass] Commnets on draft-farrell-perpass-a… Jacob Appelbaum
- Re: [perpass] Commnets on draft-farrell-perpass-a… Bruce Perens
- Re: [perpass] Commnets on draft-farrell-perpass-a… Jacob Appelbaum
- Re: [perpass] Commnets on draft-farrell-perpass-a… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [perpass] Commnets on draft-farrell-perpass-a… Bruce Perens
- Re: [perpass] Commnets on draft-farrell-perpass-a… Stephane Bortzmeyer
- Re: [perpass] Commnets on draft-farrell-perpass-a… Josh Howlett
- Re: [perpass] Commnets on draft-farrell-perpass-a… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [perpass] Commnets on draft-farrell-perpass-a… Josh Howlett
- Re: [perpass] Commnets on draft-farrell-perpass-a… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [perpass] Commnets on draft-farrell-perpass-a… Josh Howlett
- Re: [perpass] Commnets on draft-farrell-perpass-a… Stephen Farrell
- [perpass] Tiny stacks Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [perpass] Tiny stacks Richard Barnes
- Re: [perpass] Tiny stacks Robin Wilton
- Re: [perpass] Tiny stacks Paul Ferguson
- Re: [perpass] Tiny stacks Hannes Tschofenig
- [perpass] Way forward? [Was: Tiny stacks] Martin Millnert
- Re: [perpass] Tiny stacks Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [perpass] Tiny stacks Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [perpass] Tiny stacks Richard Barnes
- Re: [perpass] Tiny stacks Martin Thomson
- Re: [perpass] Tiny stacks Stephen Farrell
- Re: [perpass] Tiny stacks Richard Barnes
- Re: [perpass] Tiny stacks Bjoern Hoehrmann
- Re: [perpass] Tiny stacks Richard Barnes
- Re: [perpass] Tiny stacks Stephen Farrell
- Re: [perpass] Tiny stacks Stephen Farrell
- Re: [perpass] Tiny stacks Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [perpass] Tiny stacks Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [perpass] Tiny stacks Stephen Farrell
- Re: [perpass] Tiny stacks Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [perpass] Tiny stacks Robin Wilton
- Re: [perpass] Tiny stacks Joseph Lorenzo Hall
- Re: [perpass] Tiny stacks Scott Brim
- Re: [perpass] Tiny stacks Scott Brim
- Re: [perpass] Tiny stacks Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [perpass] Tiny stacks Dean Willis