Re: [perpass] Another mail-related proposal
Jim Fenton <fenton@bluepopcorn.net> Tue, 20 August 2013 05:24 UTC
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Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2013 22:24:01 -0700
From: Jim Fenton <fenton@bluepopcorn.net>
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To: Randy Bush <randy@psg.com>
References: <520FE08B.80005@bluepopcorn.net> <alpine.LFD.2.10.1308171723400.14413@bofh.nohats.ca> <5210643F.8030709@bluepopcorn.net> <m2bo4vcuup.wl%randy@psg.com> <Pine.SGI.4.61.1308180959010.1312964@shell01.TheWorld.com> <5210F9D3.5010302@bluepopcorn.net> <m2zjsea6fd.wl%randy@psg.com> <52126423.2050209@bluepopcorn.net> <m21u5p9ox7.wl%randy@psg.com>
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Cc: perpass@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [perpass] Another mail-related proposal
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On 08/19/2013 05:38 PM, Randy Bush wrote: >>> and the nsa pwns the disk drives of the smtp relays. e2e, please, in >>> addition to transport. in 1984, all data and traffic should be >>> encrypted. >> That goes to the question I had in my original message on this thread: >> what is the threat model we are attempting to address? In the short term >> at least, I consider transport-level encryption of email to be helpful, >> because it raises the required attack complexity. > i agree transport should be encrypted. and, as someone has pointed out, > we should know when that negotiation is not successful and be able to > make some decisions. > > smtp is hop by hop. just because A encrypts to B, A has zero assurance > that B encrypts to C. hence, e2e encryption is pretty much mandatory > against a purely passive attacker. > ...which goes back to the original thing I was suggesting: that A should be able to signal to B that it should only relay the message (e.g., to C) if the channel is also encrypted and that C also will observe the restriction if it needs to relay the message further. Not as good as end-to-end encryption, but an improvement nonetheless. I believe the military folks might call this "Encrypt For Transmission Only". -Jim
- [perpass] Another mail-related proposal Jim Fenton
- Re: [perpass] Another mail-related proposal Paul Wouters
- Re: [perpass] Another mail-related proposal Jim Fenton
- Re: [perpass] Another mail-related proposal Randy Bush
- Re: [perpass] Another mail-related proposal Dan Schlitt
- Re: [perpass] Another mail-related proposal Jim Fenton
- Re: [perpass] Another mail-related proposal Stephen Farrell
- Re: [perpass] Another mail-related proposal Jim Fenton
- Re: [perpass] Another mail-related proposal Yoav Nir
- Re: [perpass] Another mail-related proposal Randy Bush
- Re: [perpass] Another mail-related proposal Jim Fenton
- Re: [perpass] Another mail-related proposal Jim Fenton
- Re: [perpass] Another mail-related proposal Randy Bush
- Re: [perpass] Another mail-related proposal Randy Bush
- Re: [perpass] Another mail-related proposal Jim Fenton
- Re: [perpass] Another mail-related proposal Randy Bush
- Re: [perpass] Another mail-related proposal Jim Fenton