Re: [perpass] privacy implications of UUIDs for IoT devices
Fernando Gont <fgont@si6networks.com> Fri, 14 October 2016 10:25 UTC
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To: Peter Saint-Andre - Filament <peter@filament.com>, perpass@ietf.org
References: <5c32e81f-7e43-2bde-b8f4-46f08fecdefb@cs.tcd.ie> <db516334-43ab-e967-cfd5-87d920b65015@filament.com>
From: Fernando Gont <fgont@si6networks.com>
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Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2016 01:12:43 -0300
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Cc: Iván Arce <iarce@fundacionsadosky.org.ar>, Dave Thaler <dthaler@microsoft.com>
Subject: Re: [perpass] privacy implications of UUIDs for IoT devices
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On 10/05/2016 08:54 PM, Peter Saint-Andre - Filament wrote: > Over on the CORE WG list, we've had a little discussion about the > desirability (or not) of unique identifiers for devices in the Internet > of Things. The message below provides some context. > > I'd be curious to learn more about the attack surface lurking behind > Stephen Farrell's comment that having long-term stable identifiers for > IoT devices is a privacy-unfriendly practice because people will abuse > such identifiers. > > To be clear, the scenarios I have in mind are not specific to CoAP and > don't always involve IP-based networking (the technology I'm working on > these days enables mesh networking over long-range radio), but they do > involve discovery and eventual communication that is both end-to-end > encrypted and as close to metadata-hiding as possible. > > Thanks! > > Peter > > -------- Forwarded Message -------- > Subject: Re: [core] Implications of IP address / port changes for CoAP & Co > Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2016 00:11:26 +0100 > From: Stephen Farrell > To: core@ietf.org <core@ietf.org> > > > Hi Peter, > > On 06/10/16 00:03, Peter Saint-Andre - Filament wrote: >> On 10/5/16 4:28 PM, Stephen Farrell wrote: >> >>> On 05/10/16 23:22, Dave Thaler wrote: >>>> It is important that every device have a unique UUID that is >>>> endpoint-address-agnostic and protocol-agnostic. >>> >>> Considering the privacy implications I'm not at all sure I'd >>> accept that argument. In fact I'd argue we ought encourage >>> that devices not have globally unique long-term identifiers at >>> all unless there is a real need for those, and unless we >>> understand how to control their (ab)use. >> >> By "identifier" do we necessarily mean "network identifier"? It seems to >> me that it is useful to have a unique long-term identifier for every >> device, based on its public key. Whether you can obtain a network >> connection to that device based on such information is another story. > > It is undoubtedly useful to have long term stable identifiers of > various kinds. I'd include key IDs and public keys as such. > > Turns out that it's also fairly universally privacy unfriendly > as people will abuse such identifiers for good and bad reasons. > > So I think we need to get much better at analysing when such > things are really needed and in what scope. My bet is that a lot > of the time a locally or probabilistically unique more transient > identifier would be just fine. > > But yeah, I can't prove that. OTOH there is a hint in the term > "IMSI catcher" isn't there? At the risk of sounding our own horn, draft-gont-numeric-ids-generation might be useful for guidance. For instance, our I-D essentially argues that you should be asking yourself the question: "what are the interoperability properties you need for such IDs?". Thanks! Best regards, -- Fernando Gont SI6 Networks e-mail: fgont@si6networks.com PGP Fingerprint: 6666 31C6 D484 63B2 8FB1 E3C4 AE25 0D55 1D4E 7492
- Re: [perpass] privacy implications of UUIDs for I… Dave Thaler
- [perpass] privacy implications of UUIDs for IoT d… Peter Saint-Andre - Filament
- Re: [perpass] privacy implications of UUIDs for I… George Michaelson
- Re: [perpass] privacy implications of UUIDs for I… Dave Thaler
- Re: [perpass] privacy implications of UUIDs for I… George Michaelson
- Re: [perpass] privacy implications of UUIDs for I… George Michaelson
- Re: [perpass] privacy implications of UUIDs for I… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [perpass] privacy implications of UUIDs for I… Christian Huitema
- Re: [perpass] privacy implications of UUIDs for I… John Levine
- Re: [perpass] privacy implications of UUIDs for I… Robin Wilton
- Re: [perpass] privacy implications of UUIDs for I… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [perpass] privacy implications of UUIDs for I… Michael Richardson
- Re: [perpass] privacy implications of UUIDs for I… Michael Richardson
- Re: [perpass] privacy implications of UUIDs for I… Michael Richardson
- Re: [perpass] privacy implications of UUIDs for I… Hugo Maxwell Connery
- Re: [perpass] privacy implications of UUIDs for I… Michael Richardson
- Re: [perpass] privacy implications of UUIDs for I… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [perpass] privacy implications of UUIDs for I… Christian Huitema
- Re: [perpass] privacy implications of UUIDs for I… Joseph Lorenzo Hall
- Re: [perpass] privacy implications of UUIDs for I… Michael Richardson
- Re: [perpass] privacy implications of UUIDs for I… Michael Richardson
- Re: [perpass] privacy implications of UUIDs for I… Christian Huitema
- Re: [perpass] privacy implications of UUIDs for I… Michael Richardson
- Re: [perpass] privacy implications of UUIDs for I… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [perpass] privacy implications of UUIDs for I… Fernando Gont
- Re: [perpass] privacy implications of UUIDs for I… Fernando Gont
- Re: [perpass] privacy implications of UUIDs for I… Fernando Gont
- Re: [perpass] privacy implications of UUIDs for I… Fernando Gont
- Re: [perpass] privacy implications of UUIDs for I… Eitan Adler
- Re: [perpass] privacy implications of UUIDs for I… Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [perpass] privacy implications of UUIDs for I… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [perpass] privacy implications of UUIDs for I… Christian Huitema
- Re: [perpass] privacy implications of UUIDs for I… Ross Schulman
- Re: [perpass] privacy implications of UUIDs for I… Robin Wilton
- Re: [perpass] privacy implications of UUIDs for I… Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [perpass] privacy implications of UUIDs for I… Brian E Carpenter