Re: [perpass] perens-perpass-appropriate-response-01

Phillip Hallam-Baker <hallam@gmail.com> Wed, 04 December 2013 21:39 UTC

Return-Path: <hallam@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: perpass@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: perpass@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B29D61AE177 for <perpass@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 4 Dec 2013 13:39:47 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.999
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RMENJtomuXnq for <perpass@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 4 Dec 2013 13:39:46 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-wi0-x234.google.com (mail-wi0-x234.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c05::234]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF9091AE13B for <perpass@ietf.org>; Wed, 4 Dec 2013 13:39:45 -0800 (PST)
Received: by mail-wi0-f180.google.com with SMTP id hn9so4488829wib.1 for <perpass@ietf.org>; Wed, 04 Dec 2013 13:39:42 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=vB1PqGoKrQt8Wz0fPG30lr/nLvHlKa2hC/JAbQeBiTQ=; b=NrtC6FGScsmkuzWEwggruIM9VFbZLodX5ZecVc4jdXA6arCig/SZEg6TXvCKfyrQFE bMHj7Mq85p0dHQ+grhDVbiXJ9Uk8GngwP679V7yHDOsQhb/+7F205RPrxiBmKjIkUGju oQcHtB05ZEEH4wh0ruLp9nMYgYkUo9Dz5L5ZFW13zb7iuID3nSydTiu4Rcv4f06lU8K2 pBlhU7+zBVLK8k9BR+PnYuZV2N286S26ycKvcgSPxh3q5gMkcfEeI2UsIN7BO9rcbW1Q L15yoXh9dmSzK+KzhCmFlJgDOQWa4aFUv65m6+F6JbwruFk9eyP0TpDpWRpNV+of/4B5 lIfA==
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Received: by 10.180.189.80 with SMTP id gg16mr9150661wic.32.1386193182187; Wed, 04 Dec 2013 13:39:42 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.194.243.136 with HTTP; Wed, 4 Dec 2013 13:39:42 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <529F98C0.9090808@perens.com>
References: <E2DA1477-C86E-441E-A33D-D47A0D67AFF3@iab.org> <EF9BD1E4-6EF3-4035-AC4E-1A2D3CADE615@mnot.net> <529E8494.7000806@perens.com> <20131204111309.GB11727@nic.fr> <529F61D8.6030105@perens.com> <20131204171207.GC19914@thunk.org> <529F63C0.3040804@perens.com> <529F88AC.3090904@appelbaum.net> <529F90A0.8000706@perens.com> <529F9205.30906@appelbaum.net> <529F98C0.9090808@perens.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2013 16:39:42 -0500
Message-ID: <CAMm+LwgyAZHLSfc88BuSvDNv=5g-6QtTu0w_oz36WgNus=J8VA@mail.gmail.com>
From: Phillip Hallam-Baker <hallam@gmail.com>
To: Bruce Perens <bruce@perens.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c2231436e7d004ecbc405f
Cc: Theodore Ts'o <tytso@mit.edu>, perpass <perpass@ietf.org>, Stephane Bortzmeyer <bortzmeyer@nic.fr>, Jacob Appelbaum <jacob@appelbaum.net>
Subject: Re: [perpass] perens-perpass-appropriate-response-01
X-BeenThere: perpass@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: "The perpass list is for IETF discussion of pervasive monitoring. " <perpass.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/perpass>, <mailto:perpass-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/perpass/>
List-Post: <mailto:perpass@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:perpass-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/perpass>, <mailto:perpass-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2013 21:39:47 -0000

On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 4:04 PM, Bruce Perens <bruce@perens.com> wrote:

>  On 12/04/2013 12:35 PM, Jacob Appelbaum wrote:
>
> What about the illegal spying is in your interest?
>
> I am not 100% confident that it is illegal, although I am unhappy about
> FISA and a lot of other things done since 9/11. I testify for a living. I
> could make a good case that it is illegal, and maybe convince a court.
>

I am pretty sure that the Russian courts would consider the activities of
the NSA to be illegal.

The authorities in Brazil do as well.

And I am not at all keen on this idea that Alexander signed off on of using
raw intelligence data for 'swapsies' with foreign governments that have a
habit of murdering their political opponents (and using a British passport
to cover their tracks to boot!).


You have a very parochial view of the situation here and you are making the
rather ridiculous claim that people who disagree with you are committing
treason.

If the US wants to help in the fight against terrorism it will ban all
firearms and collect them for immediate disposal. Until that happens I see
no reason to take them seriously. The number of deaths due to terrorism is
inconsequential in comparison to the annual number of deaths due to
firearms.


-- 
Website: http://hallambaker.com/