Re: [perpass] privacy implications of UUIDs for IoT devices

Robin Wilton <wilton@isoc.org> Fri, 14 October 2016 16:28 UTC

Return-Path: <wilton@isoc.org>
X-Original-To: perpass@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: perpass@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C056E12954B for <perpass@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 14 Oct 2016 09:28:18 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.922
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.922 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=isoc.onmicrosoft.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id m_hp9KCsCXBx for <perpass@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 14 Oct 2016 09:28:16 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from NAM01-BN3-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-bn3nam01on0084.outbound.protection.outlook.com [104.47.33.84]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 23FBC129548 for <perpass@ietf.org>; Fri, 14 Oct 2016 09:28:16 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=isoc.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector1-isoc-org; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version; bh=Ls31o59CHiiuS2i8PnGzUHHIBSVlhsmqdpCkn3y87QI=; b=mWBWbJF0ekeCUUZRWru6ycXDwQSFtAB5cRaBAecXSS+DnSIox58TnQJ6PmEqLoI+wu2mlP3biyuVErDCjCy1sRqpXnpXNwddsPLOEd3EiL+npdjZkVxY74Lvup7EgURsTWiGES29nPrb/87h6g44a8JUmBTp04YKRrc+e/jU/Wk=
Received: from BN6PR06MB3025.namprd06.prod.outlook.com (10.173.141.23) by BN6PR06MB3026.namprd06.prod.outlook.com (10.173.141.151) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384_P384) id 15.1.659.11; Fri, 14 Oct 2016 16:28:14 +0000
Received: from BN6PR06MB3025.namprd06.prod.outlook.com ([10.173.141.23]) by BN6PR06MB3025.namprd06.prod.outlook.com ([10.173.141.23]) with mapi id 15.01.0659.020; Fri, 14 Oct 2016 16:28:14 +0000
From: Robin Wilton <wilton@isoc.org>
To: Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie>
Thread-Topic: [perpass] privacy implications of UUIDs for IoT devices
Thread-Index: AQHSH2PgjkQMK9h5UkSEG8JCs3Z8j6CairuAgAACN4CADNmyAIAAsIOAgAADToCAABavQA==
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2016 16:28:13 +0000
Message-ID: <6561F03D-4747-4754-A41E-73D0126E5F69@isoc.org>
References: <5c32e81f-7e43-2bde-b8f4-46f08fecdefb@cs.tcd.ie> <db516334-43ab-e967-cfd5-87d920b65015@filament.com> <CAKr6gn2EjAwqvTXgNyO0Jc3yt9qFRfixXMURHg3wQLe4FcwWWQ@mail.gmail.com> <CY1PR03MB2265659F67817DF02F3FCF29A3C70@CY1PR03MB2265.namprd03.prod.outlook.com> <61bb307c-6186-db01-1664-6ecabc9c21a3@si6networks.com> <c0b89950-268e-a350-cbee-33c35cf92c2d@alum.mit.edu>, <539e53e5-12fe-2226-f490-b7fd5b61a4d9@cs.tcd.ie>
In-Reply-To: <539e53e5-12fe-2226-f490-b7fd5b61a4d9@cs.tcd.ie>
Accept-Language: en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=wilton@isoc.org;
x-originating-ip: [94.174.34.240]
x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: d37eda6a-548e-4f48-9793-08d3f44f188b
x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; BN6PR06MB3026; 6:B0VUB7/Dgz2aCXhK4OD/4LvIe5DE5PpKi4RNzI/HL4h1FPtgQiM/30RHyBGZoqoF+0iYf3QQbJlnLSAE+4uQTPPfLNA2/uDzmD4JTzrsRQ7JLS9z32nSxyCv00FCP5mbszUcT5eW/pLODSAEUz2bVz/qV9RROFtV6A/8mIgwPuNJSyBqUpTIRk3juR/jU1EmyXCPFfUxlSJD9gBSGYJsoCFbG5vK+Wmv5Zja5SVloKEliPdBMTPjtMW0QcgugL7N1hwy9ouwpUeaogZCUpSH7lAahXsSeDUs4TgyDZR1an+lWDfALdKpufDJVdbouKSe; 5:dKAHrHObVamxnhP7eu4Jj7q3XPylGv98K89iANvbuKE8B4GIZnPLBm/1JCiqFp/SNaib4Fcd/Op81AK5MyviIp2OXPCCntLaF2HyztGluC3BIwGdfD8XLNaSYo5Tgt0Gc0/v29vhpNqQTp/12KU+IQ==; 24:lPW2kR7F6lu3rWieVcxlbIghUfc+OIpDoVElNFJ7qysAxXbVweaik/g4JPPNOkEELnoXigqR0qxvT+wHNP8Kbf7iQj5a05ye02rUBmRLnbU=; 7:mL8ptshNbNPIGi85ZuliiaSZ905Tc40CYnHPOX4Dyil8oIWvp9KCHT/i+cQPr0a27sE6O+qdbAvgWNkiNg2FkILWv5fIiucmciwzOn5vz2sohXNw524DGA3kK0w79GUH4Bpa8pnZOrunpCaVEgzCxPMmDecpJxfAiSMyTjycUkyFFu9TKipyFy8/DC9hAmnxeLniu9EJazO7l5qp5UoIv/KKdgbvWfQfj9miGQRPov5i+xo9pniWcmWO9cOH0IY+efnQIT9qmqPOY+nTYroGEPcXSGpzmX2I5g/+LH510XBUxwvowQmh3TY2ZqPgosueEGhnJvd2kUokgyuNzPX9X8ofAf7ZaCTT7+BEvEZNn1Q=
x-microsoft-antispam: UriScan:;BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:BN6PR06MB3026;
x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: <BN6PR06MB3026A93D89F6E93BB254AFFABFDF0@BN6PR06MB3026.namprd06.prod.outlook.com>
x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:(32856632585715);
x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(6040176)(601004)(2401047)(8121501046)(5005006)(3002001)(10201501046); SRVR:BN6PR06MB3026; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:; SRVR:BN6PR06MB3026;
x-forefront-prvs: 0095BCF226
x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10009020)(6009001)(7916002)(189002)(199003)(24454002)(33656002)(50986999)(92566002)(10400500002)(77096005)(3660700001)(11100500001)(3280700002)(86362001)(305945005)(5002640100001)(8676002)(68736007)(189998001)(586003)(81166006)(15975445007)(7736002)(81156014)(7846002)(8936002)(36756003)(106356001)(105586002)(106116001)(99286002)(93886004)(82746002)(5660300001)(19580405001)(19580395003)(122556002)(6916009)(101416001)(2950100002)(110136003)(3846002)(4326007)(6116002)(54356999)(102836003)(76176999)(2900100001)(66066001)(83716003)(87936001)(97736004)(2906002)(104396002); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; SCL:1; SRVR:BN6PR06MB3026; H:BN6PR06MB3025.namprd06.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; PTR:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; A:1; LANG:en;
received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: isoc.org does not designate permitted sender hosts)
spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99
spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-OriginatorOrg: isoc.org
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 14 Oct 2016 16:28:13.9015 (UTC)
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 89f84dfb-7285-4810-bc4d-8b9b5794554f
X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BN6PR06MB3026
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/perpass/sbZEzXKcQJB11dwh8K7JO-dwdsc>
Cc: "perpass@ietf.org" <perpass@ietf.org>, Paul Kyzivat <pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: [perpass] privacy implications of UUIDs for IoT devices
X-BeenThere: perpass@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17
Precedence: list
List-Id: "The perpass list is for IETF discussion of pervasive monitoring. " <perpass.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/perpass>, <mailto:perpass-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/perpass/>
List-Post: <mailto:perpass@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:perpass-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/perpass>, <mailto:perpass-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2016 16:28:19 -0000

+1, plus a small further comment: Paul says "if this feature didn't exist, we'd have to invent an overt equivalent" as if that's a bad thing.

>From my perspective, that kind of design decision ought always to be an overt one - especially where, as Stephen implies, an occasional use-case (trouble-shooting) is used as the justification for a permanent default with privacy implications (linkable, semantically-loaded MAC address).

I recommend Michelle Dennedy's book, The Privacy Engineer's Manifesto, and Sarah Spiekermann's book on Value-based Design, for useful and informative guidance in this area.

Hope this is of use,
Robin

Robin Wilton

Technical Outreach Director - Identity and Privacy

On 14 Oct 2016, at 17:07, "Stephen Farrell" <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie> wrote:

> 
> 
> On 14/10/16 15:55, Paul Kyzivat wrote:
>> 
>> When looking at devices seen on WiFi the vendor ID is often displayed
>> and used to figure out which device is which, to correlate problem
>> symptoms with likely causes, and many other reasons.
> 
> How often? Compared to how often those are uselessly sent?
> (With the privacy downsides applying in all cases.)
> 
> I'm not saying that the "I need to debug stuff" arguments
> for access to information are baseless, but I do think we
> (techies) to better consider the privacy implications of
> things like that.
> 
> S.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> perpass mailing list
> perpass@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/perpass