Re: [Pesci-discuss] Growing concerns about PESCI

Scott W Brim <swb@employees.org> Thu, 27 October 2005 15:14 UTC

Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EV9SV-0005F3-F0; Thu, 27 Oct 2005 11:14:27 -0400
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EV9ST-0005Eb-EF for pesci-discuss@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Oct 2005 11:14:25 -0400
Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA10706 for <pesci-discuss@ietf.org>; Thu, 27 Oct 2005 11:14:08 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from sj-iport-4.cisco.com ([171.68.10.86]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EV9fn-0007AX-91 for pesci-discuss@ietf.org; Thu, 27 Oct 2005 11:28:14 -0400
Received: from sj-core-4.cisco.com ([171.68.223.138]) by sj-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP; 27 Oct 2005 08:14:12 -0700
Received: from xbh-rtp-201.amer.cisco.com (xbh-rtp-201.cisco.com [64.102.31.12]) by sj-core-4.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id j9RFDXVS029939; Thu, 27 Oct 2005 08:14:09 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from xfe-rtp-201.amer.cisco.com ([64.102.31.38]) by xbh-rtp-201.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Thu, 27 Oct 2005 11:14:08 -0400
Received: from cisco.com ([10.86.240.194]) by xfe-rtp-201.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Thu, 27 Oct 2005 11:14:07 -0400
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 11:13:16 -0400
From: Scott W Brim <swb@employees.org>
To: Leslie Daigle <leslie@thinkingcat.com>
Subject: Re: [Pesci-discuss] Growing concerns about PESCI
Message-ID: <20051027151316.GC1704@sbrim-wxp01>
References: <web-3031527@multicasttech.com> <435E7183.4080000@thinkingcat.com> <2D6A134D3C8C93F22B716D96@scan.jck.com> <94658BD071BC97A0EAA1F038@B50854F0A9192E8EC6CDA126> <FB89B35D67102FF1B8C55EE8@scan.jck.com> <435E6321.2020205@thinkingcat.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <435E7183.4080000@thinkingcat.com> <435E6321.2020205@thinkingcat.com>
User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Oct 2005 15:14:07.0826 (UTC) FILETIME=[137FD320:01C5DB09]
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-Scan-Signature: 798b2e660f1819ae38035ac1d8d5e3ab
Cc: pesci-discuss@ietf.org
X-BeenThere: pesci-discuss@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5
Precedence: list
List-Id: Process Evolution Study Committee of the IETF discussion <pesci-discuss.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pesci-discuss>, <mailto:pesci-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www1.ietf.org/pipermail/pesci-discuss>
List-Post: <mailto:pesci-discuss@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:pesci-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pesci-discuss>, <mailto:pesci-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
Sender: pesci-discuss-bounces@ietf.org
Errors-To: pesci-discuss-bounces@ietf.org

(limiting to pesci-discuss)

On Tue, Oct 25, 2005 12:53:53PM -0400, Leslie Daigle allegedly wrote:
> The big difference is -- there is absolutely no piece of IETF
> standards process that *requires* that the "design team" listen to any
> of the points provided on the "-discuss" list.  There is a tacit
> requirement, in that one presumes the appropriate AD will be recalled if
> the result is clearly and obviously out of step with what the community
> asks, but that's a high-risk negative motivation.

First, there is no piece of IETF standards process that requires a WG
design team to listen to WG discussion either.  They can reject it, in
which case their solution will likely be rejected.  Second, since
PESCI has no power, what is the concern?  

> So, a genuine question:  is PESCI blurring lines, or does
> this suggest that we have in fact given up on WGs/our process?

I don't know that PESCI blurs lines, but it clearly doesn't fit in the
existing ones.  However, that doesn't have to mean that we have given
up on our process yet.  I certainly hope not :-).


_______________________________________________
Pesci-discuss mailing list
Pesci-discuss@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pesci-discuss