Re: [Pesci-discuss] Face-to-face meetings (was: Re: IETF Meeting Venue Selection Criteria)

[Geoff Huston <[e-mail]>]

"leadeship at both meetings was saying, "much more productive than an IETF 
face-to-face meeting".

In the case of Shim6, I think the entire set of attendees held a similar view,

- we had 2 days, not 2 hours
- we had folk who wanted to work to achieve a good solution
- we had time to get into the mindset, and then explore the consequences
- we had no distractions

It achieved in a weekend more than I could reasonably expect in one full 
year using only IETF meetings as the face-to-face opportunity.

It does make one wonder, as Spencer already has, what the real role and 
value is of the face-to-face meetings. I suspect that the role of the IETF 
meetings from the perspective of a WG is becoming more of "reporting  to a 
broader audience"  rather than "working in a broader context". However, to 
mitigate that a little, I also think that the BOF review opportunity to 
start work up is uniquely an IETF meeting role, and in this case the 
broader audience for a BOF is indeed a necessarily strict filter for 
chartering new work.


    Geoff


Geoff



At 04:35 AM 21/10/2005, Spencer Dawkins wrote:
>Brian just posted a couple of notes on the IETF discussion list about 
>"income that we badly need" from attendees at face-to-face IETF meetings.
>
>I had the privilege of attending the SHIM6 and Softwires interim meetings 
>last week (I guess they needed a note-taker :-), and the leadeship at both 
>meetings was saying, "much more productive than an IETF face-to-face meeting".
>
>This mode of operation (lock the same group in a room for multiple days) 
>is what I see at the IETF meetings in the SIP community, where they start 
>meeting together at 9:00 AM on Monday morning, and stay together through 
>multiple meetings of SIP, SIPPING, SIMPLE, and only diffuse slightly into 
>ECRIT, XCON, ENUM, AVT/MMUSIC, and BEHAVE (what did I leave out?) - and I 
>note there's an ad hoc on SIP peer-to-peer scheduled for Friday afternoon 
>in Vancouver.
>
>This is very different from what I think is "normal" for the IETF (attend 
>a couple of WGs that meet a couple of times during the week, attend a 
>couple of BoFs, and spend the rest of the week talking to people). It's a 
>lot more like what I think is "normal" for IEEE (the group stays together 
>for the balance of the week, during IEEE plenary meetings).
>
>There were several interim meeting participants who were not planning to 
>attend in Vancouver, including one serious contributor who may be missing 
>three face-to-face meetings in a row. All this would be fine, except that 
>we seem to be financially dependent on meeting fees from the IETF 
>face-to-face meetings.
>
>Do we think that the IETF face-to-face meetings are sacred cows that we 
>can't eliminate without eliminating the IETF completely? If "yes", is this 
>only for financial reasons, or are there others?
>
>Disclaimer - I like attending IETF face-to-face meetings, and even talking 
>with you guys while I'm there, so I'm not trying to stir up trouble, only 
>trying to understand where we're headed.
>
>Spencer
>
>>>Maybe I am an optimist.  I believe the world is a big place, and are
>>>lots of venues where the IETF has not yet met, which would work for all
>>>of us, and attract a lot of local participation.
>>
>>Which, BTW, means income that we badly need.
>>
>>>
>>>My sense of why we are discussing "venue selection criteria" is that we
>>>wish to encourage people to volunteer to be local hosts for future IETF
>>>meetings.  To make the best use of the prospective local hosts' time, it
>>>would help if we could articulate the venues that would be acceptable,
>>>versus ones that would not 'meet' (pardon the pun) our venue selection
>>>criteria.
>>
>>It will also help the IAD significantly in comparing hosting offers.
>>We also badly need hosts for financial reasons.
>
>
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