Re: [Pidloc] PIdLoc Webex

Dino Farinacci <farinacci@gmail.com> Wed, 05 December 2018 22:42 UTC

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From: Dino Farinacci <farinacci@gmail.com>
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Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2018 14:42:08 -0800
Cc: Dirk.von-Hugo@telekom.de, rja.lists@gmail.com, Saleem Bhatti <saleem@st-andrews.ac.uk>, Shunsuke Homma <homma.shunsuke@lab.ntt.co.jp>, Behcet Sarikaya <sarikaya@ieee.org>, Luigi Iannone <ggx@gigix.net>, erik@zededa.com, pidloc@ietf.org
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To: Tom Herbert <tom@quantonium.net>
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Subject: Re: [Pidloc] PIdLoc Webex
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> Dino,
> 
> Just run your mapping system in a closed and presumably secured
> network. Every service provider can run their own mapping system and
> there's no need or value to build global mapping databases.

Yes, of course. That has always been an opiton and many enterprises are doing that today.

> 
>> That’s the best any design can hope for. The IP header can only be sent in the clear.
>> 
> In order to communicate with Internet hosts plain text addresses are
> used in packets. The are identifiers in idloc terminology and they are

In headers in particular. I hope you agree it can be avoided in payloads.

> exposed to the whole Internet. It's the privacy properties of these
> that are of interest. For instance, today many service providers
> assign a /64 to their users. So, that means that if a third party on
> the Internet observes two flow with source addresses sharing the same
> sixty-four bit prefix they can deduce that the source is the same (the
> same user in case of personal devices). What is really needed for
> privacy is to use a different uncorrelatable address per flow. Under

Agree.

> certain conditions, CGNAT provides that today which is why law
> enforcement agencies are terrified of it. In lieu of NAT, idloc could
> key to provide this privacy without resorting to NAT. See
> draft-herbert-ipv6-prefix-address-privacy-00.
> 
> Tom

Understand. But randomized addresses assign to tail site can still be achieved without the high-cost of managing a CGNAT. You only need to route back to that randomized/ephemeral address for a short period of time. In fact, the ISP can withdraw the route when it wants the tail site to use another address.

Dino