Re: [pim] [bess] [Idr] draft-hb-idr-sr-p2mp-policy (3/10 to 3/24/2022) - Adoption call

"Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang" <zzhang@juniper.net> Tue, 05 April 2022 23:38 UTC

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From: "Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang" <zzhang@juniper.net>
To: Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
CC: BESS <bess@ietf.org>, "Bidgoli, Hooman (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" <hooman.bidgoli@nokia.com>, Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>, "idr@ietf.org" <idr@ietf.org>, "pim@ietf.org" <pim@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [bess] [Idr] draft-hb-idr-sr-p2mp-policy (3/10 to 3/24/2022) - Adoption call
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Date: Tue, 05 Apr 2022 23:38:13 +0000
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/pim/1D3A1Kj0kO-QWbcaeUIZ1NlPdRI>
Subject: Re: [pim] [bess] [Idr] draft-hb-idr-sr-p2mp-policy (3/10 to 3/24/2022) - Adoption call
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Hi Gyan,

Please see zzh> below for my view.



Juniper Business Use Only
From: Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2022 10:31 AM
To: Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang@juniper.net>
Cc: BESS <bess@ietf.org>; Bidgoli, Hooman (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) <hooman.bidgoli@nokia.com>; Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>; idr@ietf.org; pim@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [bess] [Idr] draft-hb-idr-sr-p2mp-policy (3/10 to 3/24/2022) - Adoption call

[External Email. Be cautious of content]


Dear authors

Can you describe in more detail the relationship and interaction between the two SR P2MP variants below:

Defines new SAFI for SR P2MP variant
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-hb-idr-sr-p2mp-policy-04<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-hb-idr-sr-p2mp-policy-04__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!RNg1gSHc7bgU2dou9enCSiVF-PXIWQ2Wk4mTxBBHjYxjFPb_mdHB9D5C3jKh83Sr$>

zzh> draft-ietf-bess-bgp-multicast-controller (referred to as draft-bess) defines a SAFI and different route types of that SAFI to setup replication state on IP/mLDP/SR-P2MP tree nodes. One of the route types is for SR-P2MP purposes.
Zzh> draft-hb-idr-sr-p2mp-policy (draft in this adoption call, referred to as draft-hb) defines a different SAFI and route types for the same SR-P2MP purposes.

Does this draft utilize all the drafts below Tree sid / Replication sid and SR P2MP MVPN procedures for auto discovery etc.

Zzh> Both drafts are for realizing the two tree-sid drafts mentioned below; both can be used for draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp.

Zzh> As I mentioned before, both draft-bess and draft-hb have its own considerations. The biggest difference is how the replication information is encoded in the Tunnel Encapsulation Attribute (TEA).
Zzh> I can understand that the IDR/PIM/BESS WGs may decide to accept both ways of encoding replication information in the TEA, but I believe we should share SAFI and route types between the two drafts - only the TEA would be different.
Zzh> Jeffrey

Defines Tree SID stitching of replication SID SR policy P2MP variant
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-voyer-pim-sr-p2mp-policy-00<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-voyer-pim-sr-p2mp-policy-00__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!RNg1gSHc7bgU2dou9enCSiVF-PXIWQ2Wk4mTxBBHjYxjFPb_mdHB9D5C3gdi0hAB$>

Replication SID
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-spring-sr-replication-segment<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-spring-sr-replication-segment__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!RNg1gSHc7bgU2dou9enCSiVF-PXIWQ2Wk4mTxBBHjYxjFPb_mdHB9D5C3smIMNzh$>

Defines new SR P2MP PTA using MVPN procedures
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!RNg1gSHc7bgU2dou9enCSiVF-PXIWQ2Wk4mTxBBHjYxjFPb_mdHB9D5C3g-W3jH0$>


Kind Regards

Gyan


On Mon, Mar 28, 2022 at 3:39 PM Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang=40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org<mailto:40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>> wrote:
Hi,

When it comes to SR-P2MP state downloading, there are three aspects involved here:


  1.  NLRI to encode policy information
  2.  NLRI to encode <tree/path/instance, node> identification
  3.  Tunnel Encapsulation Attribute (TEA) that encodes actual replication branches

The major difference between the two ways is on #3. Indeed, we could not reach consensus - there are two ways of encoding the TEA and each has its own considerations. The draft-ietf-bess way (even when used for SR-P2MP) is aligned with other non-SR multicast trees (IP/mLDP) for a unified approach, while draft-hb is aligned to unicast BGP SR policy.

I want to initiate a discussion and I can understand that WGs may eventually choose to allow both ways for #3. Even so, I think we should strive for consistent approach at least for #1 and #2 (and for that I am not saying that draft-ietf-bess way must be used). For example, use the same SAFI and route types for both ways, but use different TEA encoding methods.

Thanks.

Jeffrey



Juniper Business Use Only
From: Bidgoli, Hooman (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) <hooman.bidgoli@nokia.com<mailto:hooman.bidgoli@nokia.com>>
Sent: Friday, March 25, 2022 11:34 AM
To: Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang <zzhang@juniper.net<mailto:zzhang@juniper.net>>; Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com<mailto:shares@ndzh.com>>; idr@ietf.org<mailto:idr@ietf.org>
Cc: 'pim@ietf.org<mailto:pim@ietf.org>' <pim@ietf.org<mailto:pim@ietf.org>>; 'BESS' <bess@ietf.org<mailto:bess@ietf.org>>
Subject: RE: [Idr] draft-hb-idr-sr-p2mp-policy (3/10 to 3/24/2022) - Adoption call

[External Email. Be cautious of content]

Hi All

Zzh> I do think BGP signaling for SR P2MP is appropriate. We just need to discuss the two ways and figure out how to proceed. The authors have discussed before though we have not reached consensus.

HB> yes there was discussion and there was no consensus to merge the 2 drafts as their approach is widely different. The authors of this draft have kept the implementation very close to unicast BGP SR Policy for the segment list, which simplifies the implementation and deployment of the technology. As you said there seems to be two way to download this policy and the segment list and we can work on both.
Given the solid support I don't see why the adoption of this draft should  be delayed because of these arguments.

Thanks
Hooman

From: pim <pim-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:pim-bounces@ietf.org>> On Behalf Of Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang
Sent: Friday, March 25, 2022 10:47 AM
To: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com<mailto:shares@ndzh.com>>; idr@ietf.org<mailto:idr@ietf.org>
Cc: 'pim@ietf.org<mailto:pim@ietf.org>' <pim@ietf.org<mailto:pim@ietf.org>>; 'BESS' <bess@ietf.org<mailto:bess@ietf.org>>
Subject: Re: [pim] [Idr] draft-hb-idr-sr-p2mp-policy (3/10 to 3/24/2022) - Adoption call

[+ BESS, PIM]

Hi,

I realized that in a hurry I did not respond to the specific questions below. Please see zzh> next to the questions.

Looks like that there are some comments on BESS/PIM list and I will go through those to see if I have any addition/follow-up on those.



Juniper Business Use Only
From: Idr <idr-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org>> On Behalf Of Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang
Sent: Friday, March 25, 2022 6:30 AM
To: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com<mailto:shares@ndzh.com>>; idr@ietf.org<mailto:idr@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Idr] draft-hb-idr-sr-p2mp-policy (3/10 to 3/24/2022) - Adoption call

[External Email. Be cautious of content]

I am sorry for responding late. I somehow missed this.

I think we should discuss the relationship with daft-ietf-bess-bgp-multicast-controller further before adopting this.

Thanks.
Jeffrey



Juniper Business Use Only
From: Idr <idr-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org>> On Behalf Of Susan Hares
Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2022 10:28 AM
To: idr@ietf.org<mailto:idr@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Idr] draft-hb-idr-sr-p2mp-policy (3/10 to 3/24/2022) - Adoption call

[External Email. Be cautious of content]

IDR WG:

If you just wish to respond to the IDR list,
you may respond to this email on the adoption call.

Cheers, Sue

From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Susan Hares
Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2022 9:55 AM
To: idr@ietf.org<mailto:idr@ietf.org>; pim@ietf.org<mailto:pim@ietf.org>; bess@ietf.org<mailto:bess@ietf.org>
Subject: [Idr] draft-hb-idr-sr-p2mp-policy (3/10 to 3/24/2022)

This begins a 2 week WG adoption call for:
draft-hb-idr-sr-p2mp-policy from (3/10 to 3/24/2022)

You can obtain the draft at:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hb-idr-sr-p2mp-policy/<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hb-idr-sr-p2mp-policy/__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!TfiPI1NfecN3db3pj6WZ8paxUr4s6OvmVZ91mapddPFeCkFZJodxFk8aTGCpYg34$>

In your comments for this call please consider:

Zzh> I want to point out that https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bess-bgp-multicast-controller/<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bess-bgp-multicast-controller/__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!S33KKHGKJVywLaE5hTpBZvb2Og_8GrdduTTT-6xmknLUl8Yylk7RNo3lGazDpUZk$> is another way to do the same. I also explained in https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/idr/KObeSgKPu3HRbd0ZN7L7fWq_Eto/<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/idr/KObeSgKPu3HRbd0ZN7L7fWq_Eto/__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!S33KKHGKJVywLaE5hTpBZvb2Og_8GrdduTTT-6xmknLUl8Yylk7RNo3lGW1pXg_c$> why it was in the bess WG.
Zzh> In addition, the bess draft supports *other* multicast trees (IP, mLDP besides SR-P2MP) using a consistent way.

1)  Does this technology support the SR P2MP features
that distributes candidate paths which connect
a multicast distribution tree (tree to leaves).

Zzh> It is one way to use BGP to support that. The bess draft specifies another way.

2) Is the technology correctly specified for the
NLRI (AFI/SAFI) and the tunnel encapsulation attribute
additions (sections 2 and 3)?

Zzh> The specified SAFI and tunnel encapsulation attribute additions are one way for the BGP signaling for SR-P2MP. The bess draft specifies another way.

3) Does the P2MP policy operation (section 4)
provide enough information for those implementing this
technology and those deploying the technology?

4) Do you think this multicast technology is a good
Place to start for P2MP policy advertisement via BGP?

Zzh> Both ways are good place to start. We just need to figure out how to proceed with the two proposals.

5) Do you think this SR P2MP policies should not be advertised
via BGP?

Zzh> I do think BGP signaling for SR P2MP is appropriate. We just need to discuss the two ways and figure out how to proceed. The authors have discussed before though we have not reached consensus.
Zzh> Thanks!
Zzh> Jeffrey

Cheers, Susan Hares
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Gyan Mishra

Network Solutions Architect

Email gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com<mailto:gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com>

M 301 502-1347