[pim] Detnet WG charter ? “QOS and Jumbo frames” over public internet

Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com> Thu, 23 July 2020 20:27 UTC

Return-Path: <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: pim@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: pim@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost []) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 725473A0D6D; Thu, 23 Jul 2020 13:27:53 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.087
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.087 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_REMOTE_IMAGE=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com []) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Jch5gPwe5h5n; Thu, 23 Jul 2020 13:27:51 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-io1-xd2b.google.com (mail-io1-xd2b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d2b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B2E4D3A0B54; Thu, 23 Jul 2020 13:27:51 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-io1-xd2b.google.com with SMTP id k23so7593403iom.10; Thu, 23 Jul 2020 13:27:51 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=00dY5poaJdv4snA3RoHWe0urVXUwUhoSB8NrEr4QkwE=; b=o/Ry2LqgFVxbYeQaGqk6TVqeEb++/Ux+JvgFrDyobw7y4LcsgjCUwy+qTtuqg7Y/hP Z5iwwmpmHjZGdmnpwmWWKymyAO7plM7q9D2cC/FweX4wVZVFcp2Wf1Bh2gkJdf18WLyD O2w/cceFFiZWh9zTef/ANpIQZ+D78h1+Db86x8KuntGbYtdHXd97IQ2CImRdWLKFuNem gdSk+soUgoSUuN1QsvLt90CUEEtTsvk+vQWPJG8WPdT0hKH8ynjXI2b5qGwSzo5WILOw S0NiHno8OB4SAGt8ilonkD5RUHPeyYeYe/SaOf1t1pVq3ZfCgtvv+TO2hsZEN6FzmRSr kEHw==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=00dY5poaJdv4snA3RoHWe0urVXUwUhoSB8NrEr4QkwE=; b=NkHOikcB/9c7TobHAMFRm4f4acjFrf2Uc/JRVg7W3Pm2n6znfzpU3JXS1wAsnXGUeW 0jr9b4v8JaT/9eB7jdbkPmby5VepChCKLMbj9wGfj3OTuBBu2o55IjArt1/BlJbUZx6g R1xL/eCSJ9vfi3wDAxZf6f7XSm2/q/amn4jo6HjgOPNPwWIAFc9RxRjd0NzXANNJSpLk jah4mUZIlYaB6F6UXM6k5QOuZksyob3pJm/1u58jnTw5lLgHEalvrz+gjlS98wu1/M0F Z1wrldJkVKtcX9zxUTCwdE5A8R5uQREjXYjEURYrVzhYaFagv+/sIkJHcpkmdNam2jo3 ZoKw==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531Mr1iDqgGkl2igmUziYJ6zR9CAacI7ejON7z38twKCQ8Dx/pwa rcPuIDE/Z8TgEdx5M6KYabSkPRAIlK9v7Mz+y8xb7z/z1xM=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxLvUzRiboEeoH3ajYQerlb1gujpZUOe9JlpUjtJhBL0pUm78ljNlQWRnH9jAeiDnAJHjRErYbaRnx8y1k9R7I=
X-Received: by 2002:a5d:8f98:: with SMTP id l24mr6711211iol.141.1595536070545; Thu, 23 Jul 2020 13:27:50 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
From: Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2020 16:27:26 -0400
Message-ID: <CABNhwV0e40PFiAa3ohrSBqDbTutaYAQEykjCOJ8MY9=AbMYzEQ@mail.gmail.com>
To: MBONED WG <mboned@ietf.org>, "detnet@ietf.org" <detnet@ietf.org>, "pim@ietf.org" <pim@ietf.org>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000b612b605ab21b07a"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/pim/r-sBtcR10jl6r5cwsCHv2kRFhlk>
Subject: [pim] Detnet WG charter ? “QOS and Jumbo frames” over public internet
X-BeenThere: pim@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: Protocol Independent Multicast <pim.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/pim>, <mailto:pim-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/pim/>
List-Post: <mailto:pim@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:pim-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pim>, <mailto:pim-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2020 20:27:54 -0000

Dear Detnet WG

+ PIM & MBONED ( As the ? relates to reliable multicast video delivery over
the internet or 4G/5G RAN backhaul for reliable multicast over mobile
devices as well as simultaneously massive data transfers and how to make

I was curious if Detnet as it appears relevant to the charter to provide
reliable voice and video delivery over the public internet.

Their have been many white papers by universities and research institutions
over the years related to how to make end to end QOS possible over the
global internet.

Historically the problem has always been that all providers have their own
QOS policy and its impractical to be able to come up with a standard
queuing standards that all ISPs throughout the hierarchical internet must
follow from Tier 1 down to the broadband carriers so that multicast can
thrive on the internet.

I don’t think it’s impossible and maybe a ubiquitous standard exists exists
that all providers must follow today but I am not aware of one.

The conceptual idea is that in this day and age precluding the concept of
net neutrality or not as that opens up another can of worms - In theory it
seems possible to have a standard way of WRR IPV4 IPV6 dscp based or IPV6
future flow label field to provide end to end QOS guarantees for voice and
video and reliable multicast delivery over the internet.  This would help
UDP RTP multicast tremendously so that I-frame does not get dropped
resulting in buffering issues pervasive and show stopper for best effort
class dscp 0 multicast over the internet.

If a QOS queuing standard does not exist today across the internet which WG
do you think the standard should fall?

I figured I would start with Detnet w/ CC to MBONE and PIM.

Another idea which is orthogonal but related to end to end Jumbo and jumbo
grams over the internet for high speed data transfers end to end.

I stated orthogonal as due to FIFO queuing serialization delays w/o
pipelining architecture QOS WRR and SP queue, voice and video would suffer
from Jumbo - understood.  However if end to end QOS was possible over the
global internet you could in theory essentially have your cake and eat it
to so to speak.  Meaning with QOS voice and video let’s say could sit in EF
and futuristic IPV6 Jumbo grams 4.2G payload bulk transfers could sit in a
separate WRR AF queue end to end across the internet for both flow types.

Kind Regards



*Gyan Mishra*

*Network Solutions A**rchitect *

*M 301 502-134713101 Columbia Pike *Silver Spring, MD