Re: [pkix] Proposed resolution to non-issued certificates - 2560bis

Stefan Santesson <stefan@aaa-sec.com> Wed, 31 October 2012 21:25 UTC

Return-Path: <stefan@aaa-sec.com>
X-Original-To: pkix@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: pkix@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D7C221F87E0 for <pkix@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 31 Oct 2012 14:25:00 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -101.086
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.086 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.234, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_SE=0.35, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=1.396, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RQSOsR0Vwhud for <pkix@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 31 Oct 2012 14:24:59 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from s87.loopia.se (s87.loopia.se [194.9.95.113]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40A1021F87DF for <pkix@ietf.org>; Wed, 31 Oct 2012 14:24:59 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from s87.loopia.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by s87.loopia.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id ECC1B2F107 for <pkix@ietf.org>; Wed, 31 Oct 2012 22:24:57 +0100 (CET)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at outgoing-smtp.loopia.se
Received: from s87.loopia.se ([127.0.0.1]) by s87.loopia.se (s87.loopia.se [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id RdC3W9RD54cU for <pkix@ietf.org>; Wed, 31 Oct 2012 22:24:57 +0100 (CET)
Received: from s376.loopia.se (s34.loopia.se [194.9.94.70]) by s87.loopia.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A2BA2F10C for <pkix@ietf.org>; Wed, 31 Oct 2012 22:24:57 +0100 (CET)
Received: (qmail 44784 invoked from network); 31 Oct 2012 21:24:57 -0000
Received: from 81-232-51-61-no39.business.telia.com (HELO [192.168.0.113]) (stefan@fiddler.nu@[81.232.51.61]) (envelope-sender <stefan@aaa-sec.com>) by s376.loopia.se (qmail-ldap-1.03) with DES-CBC3-SHA encrypted SMTP for <pkix@ietf.org>; 31 Oct 2012 21:24:57 -0000
User-Agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.2.4.120824
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2012 22:25:15 +0100
From: Stefan Santesson <stefan@aaa-sec.com>
To: IETF PKIX <pkix@ietf.org>
Message-ID: <CCB753C4.52888%stefan@aaa-sec.com>
Thread-Topic: [pkix] Proposed resolution to non-issued certificates - 2560bis
In-Reply-To: <CA+cU71mdeGhkuLBxdkYFD98Hvk=WMROB0C5TZQhLYy5RhYXAAg@mail.gmail.com>
Mime-version: 1.0
Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="B_3434567118_33060750"
Subject: Re: [pkix] Proposed resolution to non-issued certificates - 2560bis
X-BeenThere: pkix@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12
Precedence: list
List-Id: PKIX Working Group <pkix.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/pkix>, <mailto:pkix-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/pkix>
List-Post: <mailto:pkix@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:pkix-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pkix>, <mailto:pkix-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2012 21:25:00 -0000

Here is my own concerns with inclusion of an optional cert hash in the
extension.

There might be OCSP responders that do have access to a database of issued
certs that are currently valid, but not the history of issued certs
(expired).
They could not use this extension to include a cert hash as they can't know
if a particular serial number of an expired cert is asked for.

Thus it may be wise to separate these issues and keep it simple and just use
an OID to indicate this particular behaviour with regard to "revoked"
response.
It may be wise therefore to allow a separate process come up with a separate
extension for positive confirmations.
Not that I don't like such functionality.

The alternative is to extend this process long enough that we feel sure we
got it right.

/Stefan


From:  Tom Ritter <tom@ritter.vg>
Date:  Wednesday, October 31, 2012 8:32 PM
To:  Stefan Santesson <stefan@aaa-sec.com>
Cc:  IETF PKIX <pkix@ietf.org>
Subject:  Re: [pkix] Proposed resolution to non-issued certificates -
2560bis

>> Question:
>> Would it make sense to require an OCSP responder that adopts the expanded
>> use of "revoked" to always include the new extension?
>> It would add the benefit that someone receiving "good" can know that the
>> OCSP responder has checked that the certificate in fact has been issued by
>> the CA.
>> In such case it may be reasonable to add an optional data structure which
>> MAY contain a hash of the cert.
>> Such hash would make the positive confirmation even stronger, adding proof
>> of existence of the certificate.
> 
> I'll register my vote for all these items also - I like the idea of providing
> transparency into the operations of the responders.
>