Re: [pntaw] Real-time media over TCP
Dan Wing <dwing@cisco.com> Tue, 08 October 2013 15:04 UTC
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From: Dan Wing <dwing@cisco.com>
In-Reply-To: <AC0ADD1C-C99C-4B62-BE0E-D52A2C7093A9@lurchi.franken.de>
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2013 08:04:03 -0700
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References: <CAGTXFp92jSzQz05uHngzscz88n=fT_JPbEvQRxgeUUqPVRQUyQ@mail.gmail.com> <52244DD7.1020900@alvestrand.no> <BLU405-EAS183E36A927CA42270B6936D93300@phx.gbl> <522590EE.7070508@alvestrand.no> <C632A223-A55A-47F4-B083-9BDC447DA959@cisco.com> <52262657.3080208@alvestrand.no> <A2C315DB-1882-4BD1-A8C0-E8AF7DEA48F4@cisco.com> <00ca01cec387$f881cae0$e98560a0$@co.in> <BLU406-EAS274696C3D9DFE505F96B8E393130@phx.gbl> <2924C1EA-613D-4B05-BD24-4CFD1411386E@cisco.com> <28C05866-180F-41B2-8466-502F57FF1DF1@lurchi.franken.de> <5253857F.6010802@alvestrand.no> <AC0ADD1C-C99C-4B62-BE0E-D52A2C7093A9@lurchi.franken.de>
To: Michael Tuexen <Michael.Tuexen@lurchi.franken.de>
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Cc: Bernard Aboba <bernard_aboba@hotmail.com>, Harald Alvestrand <harald@alvestrand.no>, "pntaw@ietf.org" <pntaw@ietf.org>, Parthasarathi R <partha@parthasarathi.co.in>
Subject: Re: [pntaw] Real-time media over TCP
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On Oct 8, 2013, at 5:38 AM, Michael Tuexen <Michael.Tuexen@lurchi.franken.de> wrote: > On Oct 8, 2013, at 6:09 AM, Harald Alvestrand <harald@alvestrand.no> wrote: > >> >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >> Hash: SHA1 >> >> On 10/07/2013 10:14 PM, Michael Tuexen wrote: >>> On Oct 7, 2013, at 10:08 PM, Dan Wing <dwing@cisco.com> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> On Oct 7, 2013, at 11:32 AM, Bernard Aboba >> <bernard_aboba@hotmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> As you point out, in most cases ICE-TCP will not avoid use of TURN, >> so we are only talking about a modest efficiency gain for ICE-TCP and >> RTP over TCP, but a substantial increase in complexity. >>>>> >>>>> Running SCTP over TCP is undesirable because the congestion control >> in SCTP and TCP will interact poorly with each other. >>>> >>>> And, even if a full SCTP stack is run over a full TCP stack, that >> will work but I agree won't work well. But working is better than not >> working in situations where UDP is blocked. >>>> >>>> To work well, we might look at SCTP Minion >> (draft-iyengar-minion-concept, which disables TCP's congestion control >> in lieu of SCTP's congestion control) is one answer to those conflicting >> congestion controls. >>> This would either require changing the TCP stack in the kernel or using a >>> userland TCP stack without CC, which would require using a raw socket for >>> sending, for receiving some other strategy, both would require root >> privileges... >>> Or am I missing something? >> >> If I remember the minion overview correctly, it will in fact work on an >> unmodified TCP stack, but if there are ioctls available to get frames >> out of order, it can work a good deal better. >> >> But you should get Iengar himself to talk about it if it's of interest. > His point is that you can work with an unchanged stack, but don't > get any benefit. The application sees SCTP -- that must have some benefit. -d > The point in the above is to use a TCP without CC, > which requires an end-host change. So it is not so easy to get rid > of the TCP CC when using a kernel TCP stack. > > Best regards > Michael >> >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >> Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) >> Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ >> >> iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJSU4V/AAoJEIjUFboxkRizAkQH/ixIr8I/pd/hb9FCdvJv9IaT >> 3Rgp/nYIQdaEUOdZNjdTFuoSU9ruhQ5G+Wd8PouDwS+8hdy8Dry/AOYbNxHrRjdO >> 4lvyLslOIwksOjMmkJ198RFzQTzvNjsCJQaDhmf/kMaZ0r1KF3lDjWXCzOPRetLs >> fy+5nuzzuLrInG4rqkMX2nX4J5endXYxUoX8BOclDjm33YfxPw0/bJHQNE0Iq9Oi >> mmw1zf8fzTze/ilqlEpFHv9T/CWGCQGoKinzUbWscOUZNpzPGnur/9pqfQTgMkL/ >> QWQcKuy2T7QxzIwMF9vz7xHfJvzDxD8fS9Fy1t65LScqFBnppR0qQrlxhYvnu+I= >> =W/ti >> -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- >> >> >
- [pntaw] Real-time media over TCP Victor Pascual Avila
- Re: [pntaw] Real-time media over TCP Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [pntaw] Real-time media over TCP Bernard Aboba
- Re: [pntaw] Real-time media over TCP Bernard Aboba
- Re: [pntaw] Real-time media over TCP Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [pntaw] Real-time media over TCP Dan Wing
- Re: [pntaw] Real-time media over TCP Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [pntaw] Real-time media over TCP Dan Wing
- Re: [pntaw] Real-time media over TCP Parthasarathi R
- Re: [pntaw] Real-time media over TCP Bernard Aboba
- Re: [pntaw] Real-time media over TCP Dan Wing
- Re: [pntaw] Real-time media over TCP Michael Tuexen
- Re: [pntaw] Real-time media over TCP Dan Wing
- Re: [pntaw] Real-time media over TCP Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [pntaw] Real-time media over TCP Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [pntaw] Real-time media over TCP Michael Tuexen
- Re: [pntaw] Real-time media over TCP Dan Wing
- Re: [pntaw] Real-time media over TCP Parthasarathi R
- Re: [pntaw] Real-time media over TCP Simon Perreault
- Re: [pntaw] Real-time media over TCP Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [pntaw] Real-time media over TCP Parthasarathi R
- Re: [pntaw] Real-time media over TCP Markus.Isomaki
- Re: [pntaw] Real-time media over TCP Markus.Isomaki
- Re: [pntaw] Real-time media over TCP Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [pntaw] Real-time media over TCP Chenxin (Xin)
- Re: [pntaw] Real-time media over TCP Parthasarathi R
- Re: [pntaw] Real-time media over TCP Chenxin (Xin)
- Re: [pntaw] Real-time media over TCP Markus.Isomaki
- Re: [pntaw] Real-time media over TCP Hutton, Andrew
- Re: [pntaw] Real-time media over TCP Bernard Aboba
- Re: [pntaw] Real-time media over TCP Sergio Garcia Murillo
- Re: [pntaw] Real-time media over TCP Parthasarathi R
- Re: [pntaw] Real-time media over TCP Parthasarathi R
- Re: [pntaw] Real-time media over TCP Markus.Isomaki
- Re: [pntaw] Real-time media over TCP Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [pntaw] Real-time media over TCP Dan Wing
- Re: [pntaw] Real-time media over TCP Dan Wing
- Re: [pntaw] Real-time media over TCP Ted Hardie
- Re: [pntaw] Real-time media over TCP Dan Wing
- Re: [pntaw] Real-time media over TCP Tirumaleswar Reddy (tireddy)
- Re: [pntaw] Real-time media over TCP Dan Wing
- Re: [pntaw] Real-time media over TCP Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [pntaw] Real-time media over TCP Parthasarathi R
- Re: [pntaw] Real-time media over TCP Justin Uberti
- Re: [pntaw] Real-time media over TCP Markus.Isomaki
- Re: [pntaw] Real-time media over TCP Justin Uberti
- Re: [pntaw] Real-time media over TCP Parthasarathi R
- Re: [pntaw] Real-time media over TCP Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [pntaw] Real-time media over TCP Ravindran, Parthasarathi (NSN - IN/Bangalore)
- Re: [pntaw] Real-time media over TCP Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [pntaw] Real-time media over TCP Ravindran, Parthasarathi (NSN - IN/Bangalore)
- Re: [pntaw] Real-time media over TCP Markus.Isomaki
- Re: [pntaw] Real-time media over TCP Justin Uberti