Re: [port-srv-reg] Peter Saint-Andre's Discuss on draft-ietf-dime-rfc3588bis-29: (withDISCUSS and COMMENT)
Joe Touch <touch@isi.edu> Tue, 15 November 2011 04:50 UTC
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Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 20:50:07 -0800
From: Joe Touch <touch@isi.edu>
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Cc: The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>, "Korhonen, Jouni (NSN - FI/Espoo)" <jouni.korhonen@nsn.com>, draft-ietf-dime-rfc3588bis@tools.ietf.org, dime-chairs@tools.ietf.org, "port-srv-reg@ietf.org" <port-srv-reg@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [port-srv-reg] Peter Saint-Andre's Discuss on draft-ietf-dime-rfc3588bis-29: (withDISCUSS and COMMENT)
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I'm here if it's useful to meet - today is wide open... Joe On 11/14/2011 8:44 PM, Peter Saint-Andre wrote: > My DISCUSS is still unresolved. Would it be productive to chat > face-to-face in Taipei this week? > > On 9/25/11 1:47 AM, Joe Touch wrote: >> Hi, all, >> >> TLS and DTLS are not transport protocols. The SRV spec specifies only >> the following syntax: >> >> _sname._tname.example.net >> >> sname is a service name >> tname is a transport protocol >> >> Service names currently define all protocols from L5-L7 as a single, >> non-parseable name. E.g., HTTP, HTTPS, etc. There are variants for >> application protocols over SOAP over HTML, etc. But there aren't dots >> separating the names (dots aren't permitted in service names, nor are >> underscores), and there's no structure to those names. >> >> I'm not aware of any documents that use other syntax that ever >> proposed to update RFC 2782. The few exceptions (e.g., of specifying >> SRV entries with nonstandard syntax) we've found to date have not been >> deployed, and we're expecting to issue an update to those docs to >> correct or deprecate them. >> >> In this case, the approach I would expect - which is used much more >> commonly - is: >> >> _diameter-s._tcp.example.net -- this means "diameter over TLS" >> _diameter-s._udp.example.net -- this means "diameter over DTLS" >> >> Diameter-s, diameters, or any such new service name would be used to >> indicate the secure variant of diameter. >> >> This differs from the recent NAPTR application protocol tag. The >> following was the summary of updates from that discussion on >> DIME-extended-naptr, FWIW: >> >> (1) State that the S-NAPTR Service/Protocol tags are unrelated to the >> IANA Service Name and Transport Protocol Port Number Registry. >> >> (2) State that the Application Protocol tag must not be parsed in any >> way by the querying application or resolver. The delimiter (".") is >> present in the tag to improve readability and does not imply a >> structure or namespace of any kind. >> >> (3) State that the choice of delimiter (".") for the Application >> Protocol tag follows the format of existing S-NAPTR registry entries >> but this does not imply that that it shares semantics with any other >> RFCs that have created registry entries using the same format. >> >> Joe >> >> On Sep 22, 2011, at 9:14 AM, Peter Saint-Andre wrote: >> >>> [Adding port-srv-reg@ietf.org for expert insight...] >>> >>> Context for the ports and services folks: >>> >>> During IESG review of draft-ietf-dime-rfc3588bis-29, I discovered that >>> this specification appears to be using 'tls' and 'dtls' as SRV Proto >>> values (and that it does not add 'diameter' to the ports and services >>> registry). This strikes me as problematic, but feedback from your team >>> would be helpful. >>> >>> Thanks! >>> >>> On 9/22/11 7:31 AM, Peter Saint-Andre wrote: >>>> On 9/22/11 2:43 AM, Korhonen, Jouni (NSN - FI/Espoo) wrote: >>>>> Peter, >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- From: ext Peter Saint-Andre >>>>> [mailto:stpeter@stpeter.im] Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2011 5:10 >>>>> AM To: The IESG Cc: dime-chairs@tools.ietf.org; >>>>> draft-ietf-dime-rfc3588bis@tools.ietf.org Subject: Peter >>>>> Saint-Andre's Discuss on draft-ietf-dime-rfc3588bis-29: (withDISCUSS >>>>> and COMMENT) >>>>> >>>>> Peter Saint-Andre has entered the following ballot position for >>>>> draft-ietf-dime-rfc3588bis-29: Discuss >>>>> >>>>> When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to >>>>> all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to >>>>> cut this introductory paragraph, however.) >>>>> >>>>> Please refer to >>>>> http://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more >>>>> information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> >>>>> >>>> DISCUSS: >>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> >>>>> RFC 3588 used DNS SRV Proto values of 'tcp' and 'sctp' for the SRV >>>>> Service of 'diameter'. 3588bis seems to add two more Proto values: >>>>> 'tls' and 'dtls'. However, RFC 6335, which defines updated rules for >>>>> the ports and services registry, allows only TCP, UDP, SCTP, and DCCP >>>>> as transport protocols. Furthermore, this specification does not >>>>> register the 'diameter' SRV Service value in accordance with RFC >>>>> 6335. Because these values were not defined or registered by >>>>> draft-ietf-dime-extended-naptr, I think they need to be defined >>>>> here. >>>>> >>>>> [JiK]: In extended-naptr I-D we have a note we came up with a lengthy >>>>> discussion (and eventually to an agreement) with Joe Touch. How would >>>>> RFC3588bis be different from extended-naptr in this case regarding >>>>> the use of "diameter" and "dtls"? >>>>> >>>>> The S-NAPTR Application Service and Protocol tags defined by this >>>>> specification are unrelated to the IANA Service Name and Transport >>>>> Protocol Port Number Registry (see [I-D.ietf-tsvwg-iana-ports]). >>>>> >>>>> [JiK]: RFC3588bis only introduces "diameter.dtls" in addition what is >>>>> already in extended-naptr I-D. >>>> >>>> That's not how I read it. 3588bis says: >>>> >>>> 3. If no NAPTR records are found, the requester directly queries for >>>> SRV records '_diameter._sctp'.realm, '_diameter._dtls'.realm, >>>> '_diameter._tcp'.realm and '_diameter._tls'.realm depending on >>>> the requesters network protocol capabilities. >>>> >>>> Those are not S-NAPTR Application Service and Protocol tags, they are >>>> SRV Service and Proto values. >>>> >>>> We might need to follow up separately with the Port Expert Team. >>> >>> <snip/> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Port-srv-reg mailing list >>> Port-srv-reg@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/port-srv-reg >> > >
- Re: [port-srv-reg] Peter Saint-Andre's Discuss on… Peter Saint-Andre
- Re: [port-srv-reg] Peter Saint-Andre's Discuss on… Joe Touch
- Re: [port-srv-reg] Peter Saint-Andre's Discuss on… Peter Saint-Andre
- Re: [port-srv-reg] Peter Saint-Andre's Discuss on… Joe Touch
- Re: [port-srv-reg] Peter Saint-Andre's Discuss on… Peter Saint-Andre
- Re: [port-srv-reg] Peter Saint-Andre's Discuss on… Joe Touch
- Re: [port-srv-reg] Peter Saint-Andre's Discuss on… Stuart Cheshire
- Re: [port-srv-reg] Peter Saint-Andre's Discuss on… Joe Touch
- Re: [port-srv-reg] Peter Saint-Andre's Discuss on… Jouni Korhonen
- Re: [port-srv-reg] Peter Saint-Andre's Discuss on… Jouni Korhonen
- Re: [port-srv-reg] Peter Saint-Andre's Discuss on… Korhonen, Jouni (NSN - FI/Espoo)