Re: [Pppext] [Isis-wg] TRILL, IS-IS, and System ID
Christian Hopps <chopps@rawdofmt.org> Mon, 06 June 2011 16:09 UTC
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From: Christian Hopps <chopps@rawdofmt.org>
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Cc: PPP Extensions <pppext@ietf.org>, rbridge@postel.org, Christian Hopps <chopps@rawdofmt.org>, "isis-wg@ietf.org list" <isis-wg@ietf.org>, William Allen Simpson <william.allen.simpson@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Pppext] [Isis-wg] TRILL, IS-IS, and System ID
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[Adding in correct isis-wg address..] On Jun 1, 2011, at 9:56 AM, Stewart Bryant wrote: > Bill > > The discussion of suitable methods of ISIS and hence TRILL > SystemID uniqueness needs to take place on the ISIS list > (copied) regardless of the data link technology under > consideration. > > James I am fine with your proposed text. > > Stewart > > > > On 01/06/2011 14:19, William Allen Simpson wrote: >> Obviously, Stewart is wrong. We've gone to great lengths to ensure PPP is >> zero configuration. We never need to buy and burn IEEE MAC identifiers. >> >> TRILL seems to have zero configuration design goals, too. >> >> Therefore, James is also wrong. This is not an operator issue. You >> should *NOT* put this burden on operators. It would really help for >> anybody with aspirations of designing protocols to have actually been an >> operator, and pay attention to discussions on the NANOG list! >> >> As a personal example, just last summer I spent *many* hours trying to >> figure our what was happening as a political campaign couldn't get their >> wireless access point to work. It was very flaky. At long last, traces >> discovered that the AP had a conflicting MAC with another device at >> another office somewhere else in the Comcast region. You cannot expect >> political operatives (and quite frankly any other business) to fix this. >> >> Therefore, this is a protocol design issue. I've been trying to live with >> the various compromises on language, but this goes too far! >> >> Technically, that MUST is certainly wrong. There's no guarantee of >> uniqueness, and uniqueness is required by both ISIS and TRILL. >> >> Moreover, there's no guarantee that a hot swappable or card or board based >> device will not become (even temporarily) a PPP-only device. To meet that >> MUST, every vendor of PPP devices will have to burn an IEEE number for >> every device. Yet, it still might not work! >> >> That's simply wrong! There's a lot of nonsense in IETF protocols, but we >> don't have to add more here and now. >> >> >> On 5/31/11 2:20 PM, Donald Eastlake wrote: >>> James, >>> >>> I'm fine with your suggested tweak of Stewart Bryant's wording. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Donald >>> ============================= >>> Donald E. Eastlake 3rd +1-508-333-2270 (cell) >>> 155 Beaver Street >>> Milford, MA 01757 USA >>> d3e3e3@gmail.com >>> >>> >>> On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 1:05 PM, James Carlson<carlsonj@workingcode.com> wrote: >>>> As part of IETF review, the Routing ADs are looking over >>>> draft-ietf-pppext-trill-protocol-06. Not too surprising to me -- given >>>> that I still think it's far out of scope -- the text concerning IS-IS >>>> System IDs is causing trouble in that review. See this thread: >>>> >>>> http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/rtg-dir/current/threads.html#01533 >>>> >>>> I wish I could leave the worms safely in the can, but it's looking like >>>> that might not be one of the options. >>>> >>>> Instead of the reference to Bill Simpson's draft, Stewart Bryant >>>> suggested replacement text like this: >>>> >>>> ISO/IEC 10589 states that it is the responsibility of the routeing >>>> domain administrative authority to enforce the uniqueness of the >>>> system ID. In cases where a zero configuration system is >>>> supplied the system manufacturer MUST install a suitable >>>> unique identifier at manufacturing time. One way to achieve >>>> this is for the manufacturer to use a unique IEEE MAC address >>>> following the allocation procedures normally used in the >>>> manufacture of an Ethernet interface. >>>> >>>> This tosses the issue back into the implementor's lap (which, >>>> incidentally, is exactly where I think the problem belongs), and >>>> suggests an existing and known solution where a MAC identifier may be >>>> allocated for the system itself and used as a global ID to construct the >>>> necessary IS-IS System ID. >>>> >>>> For use in this draft, I would alter the wording slightly to indicate >>>> that zero-configuration is strongly preferred for TRILL (as guidance), >>>> and that obtaining a suitable identifier is the implementor's >>>> responsibility, rather than just saying "in cases where." >>>> >>>> Would this change fly without breaking consensus? Or do we have to >>>> start over? >>>> >>>> -- >>>> James Carlson 42.703N 71.076W<carlsonj@workingcode.com> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Pppext mailing list >>>> Pppext@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pppext >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pppext mailing list >>> Pppext@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pppext >>> >> >> > > > -- > For corporate legal information go to: > > http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.html > > > _______________________________________________ > Isis-wg mailing list > Isis-wg@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/isis-wg
- [Pppext] TRILL, IS-IS, and System ID James Carlson
- Re: [Pppext] TRILL, IS-IS, and System ID Donald Eastlake
- Re: [Pppext] TRILL, IS-IS, and System ID William Allen Simpson
- Re: [Pppext] TRILL, IS-IS, and System ID Stewart Bryant
- Re: [Pppext] TRILL, IS-IS, and System ID Stewart Bryant
- Re: [Pppext] TRILL, IS-IS, and System ID James Carlson
- Re: [Pppext] TRILL, IS-IS, and System ID Stewart Bryant
- Re: [Pppext] TRILL, IS-IS, and System ID James Carlson
- Re: [Pppext] TRILL, IS-IS, and System ID Stewart Bryant
- Re: [Pppext] TRILL, IS-IS, and System ID William Allen Simpson
- Re: [Pppext] TRILL, IS-IS, and System ID James Carlson
- Re: [Pppext] [rbridge] TRILL, IS-IS, and System ID Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)
- Re: [Pppext] TRILL, IS-IS, and System ID William Allen Simpson
- Re: [Pppext] [rbridge] TRILL, IS-IS, and System ID William Allen Simpson
- Re: [Pppext] [rbridge] TRILL, IS-IS, and System ID Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)
- Re: [Pppext] [rbridge] TRILL, IS-IS, and System ID Vernon Schryver
- Re: [Pppext] [rbridge] TRILL, IS-IS, and System ID Vernon Schryver
- Re: [Pppext] TRILL, IS-IS, and System ID Stewart Bryant
- Re: [Pppext] TRILL, IS-IS, and System ID James Carlson
- Re: [Pppext] TRILL, IS-IS, and System ID Jari Arkko
- Re: [Pppext] [Isis-wg] TRILL, IS-IS, and System ID Christian Hopps