Re: [Pppext] Future of the PPP WG
Glen Zorn <glenzorn@gmail.com> Sun, 11 September 2011 16:14 UTC
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Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2011 23:16:02 +0700
From: Glen Zorn <glenzorn@gmail.com>
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To: Vernon Schryver <vjs@rhyolite.com>
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Cc: pppext@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Pppext] Future of the PPP WG
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On 9/11/2011 9:22 PM, Vernon Schryver wrote: >> From: Glen Zorn <glenzorn@gmail.com> > >>> http://www.freesound.org/people/Jlew/sounds/16475/ >> >> Well, this is all good fun, in a US/Euro-centric kind of way, but it >> would be good to remember that in a very large part of the world our >> "theme song" is a still a vital part of the Internet & is likely to >> remain so for a considerable period of time. This email will make the >> first hop of its journey over (the much maligned) PPPoE, for example; >> not everybody lives in advanced countries such as S. Korea (the >> connectivity of which should make both the French and Americans hang >> their heads in shame). In short, PPP is far from obsolete. > > I don't think the thrust of that claim is entirely accurate. Upon what do you base that claim? > Do people > outside advanced countries use dialup modems or wireless? I won't claim to know what _all_ the people outside technologically advanced countries use (I'll just leave that to you ;-). However, here in Thailand, in Cambodia and Laos lots of people have still use dial-up (though they may be using a mobile phone as a modem). > Have you > noticed the lack of modems and serial ports on modern portable computers? Actually, no: the last one I bought (~6 months ago) had a built-in modem and an Ethernet port. My new Android tablet has only Bluetooth & WiFi, but it's really more of a phone than a computer IMHO. > That you can still buy a USB modem doesn't make PPP less obsolete than > floppy disks. Last month I bought a USB modem so that I can dial with > my new portable, but that is mostly sign of my failure to move with > the times. The salesman wasn't clear about what I wanted, and I didn't > find a lot of choices. Somewhere I also have a USB floppy drive. > > How would reissuing PPP RFCs with new security boilerplate help > anyone except the authors of the new RFCs? What would people working > on PPP code do differently if the PPP RFCs had modern security > sections? How many people are working on implementations of PPPoE > or any other flavor of PPP code? Chill out, Vern, I'm not suggesting that our esteemed Chair's idea is anything like a good one; I was merely responding to I perceived as the rather patronizing tone of the emails in question. > > If moving the never deployed PPP RFCs to Historic and reissuing the > rest with new security sections were all that would happen, it would > be only a dubious effort. But there would be irresistible pressures > to to fix CHAP, MP, and even IPCP. The replacements, delivered after > years of wrangling (and no implementations), would be as ill considered > as PAP, PPPoE, and the recently proposed IS-IS security fix. If against > all likelihood they were eventually deployed, they'd be discovered to > be as insecure as many of the wireless security schemes and cause > interoperabilty problems as the PPPoE MTU still does. > > The primary defense against those "improvements" would the fact > that no one (especially not the new RFC authors) would implement > them and fewer would deploy them. > > Once upon a time, the IETF produced protocols to fill clear and > present user needs and demands. Ostensibly fixing PPP with new > security words is the sort of idle hands standards committee > exercise that destroyed the ISO OSI protocol suite. > > > Vernon Schryver vjs@rhyolite.com > _______________________________________________ > Pppext mailing list > Pppext@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pppext
- Re: [Pppext] Future of the PPP WG Mark Townsley
- [Pppext] Future of the PPP WG Donald Eastlake
- Re: [Pppext] Future of the PPP WG Glen Zorn
- Re: [Pppext] Future of the PPP WG Mark Townsley
- Re: [Pppext] Future of the PPP WG Donald Eastlake
- Re: [Pppext] Future of the PPP WG Donald Eastlake
- Re: [Pppext] Future of the PPP WG William Allen Simpson
- Re: [Pppext] Future of the PPP WG Thomas Narten
- Re: [Pppext] Future of the PPP WG Vernon Schryver
- Re: [Pppext] Future of the PPP WG Glen Zorn
- Re: [Pppext] Future of the PPP WG Bernard Aboba
- Re: [Pppext] Future of the PPP WG Mark Townsley
- Re: [Pppext] Future of the PPP WG Glen Zorn
- Re: [Pppext] Future of the PPP WG Vernon Schryver
- Re: [Pppext] Future of the PPP WG Glen Zorn
- Re: [Pppext] Future of the PPP WG Mark Townsley
- Re: [Pppext] Future of the PPP WG Donald Eastlake
- Re: [Pppext] Future of the PPP WG Ignacio Goyret
- Re: [Pppext] Future of the PPP WG William Allen Simpson
- Re: [Pppext] Future of the PPP WG Jacni Qin
- Re: [Pppext] Future of the PPP WG Jacni Qin
- Re: [Pppext] Future of the PPP WG Jacni Qin
- Re: [Pppext] Future of the PPP WG Jacni Qin
- Re: [Pppext] Future of the PPP WG Donald Eastlake
- Re: [Pppext] Future of the PPP WG Glen Zorn
- Re: [Pppext] Future of the PPP WG Mark Townsley
- Re: [Pppext] Future of the PPP WG James Carlson
- Re: [Pppext] Future of the PPP WG Vernon Schryver
- Re: [Pppext] Future of the PPP WG William Allen Simpson
- Re: [Pppext] Future of the PPP WG Glen Zorn
- Re: [Pppext] Future of the PPP WG William Allen Simpson
- Re: [Pppext] Future of the PPP WG Donald Eastlake
- Re: [Pppext] Future of the PPP WG Donald Eastlake