Re: [proto-team] revision of draft-ietf-proto-wgchair-doc-shepherding attached

[Henrik Levkowetz <[e-mail]>]

Hi Allison,

on 2006-06-16 22:05 Allison Mankin said the following:
> Hi, Lars and Henrik,
> 
> I have a different suggestion for you on the discussion you're having.
> We do use the term "writeup" for the both the larger document (former
> "questionnaire") and the smaller one which goes in the announcement,
> and I'd like not to end the latter usage, which goes back a long way,
> and which the Secretariat has as an ingrained convention.
> 
> Here's my suggestion:
> 
> OLD:
>    The second part of the task is to prepare the Document Shepherd
>    Write-Up that is input to both the ballot for the IESG telechat and
>    to the eventual IETF-wide announcement message.  Item number (1.i)
>    describes the elements of this write-up.  Please see other protocol
>    announcements in the IETF Announce archive for examples of such
>    write-ups.
> 
> 
> NEW:
>    The second part of the task is to prepare the Draft Announcement
>    Write-Up that is input to both the ballot for the IESG telechat and
>    to the eventual IETF-wide announcement message.  Item number (1.i)
>    describes the elements of this announcement write-up.  Some examples of 
>    Draft Announcement Write-ups are included in the Appendix, and there
>    are many more examples with Subject lines "Protocol Action" and
>    "Document Action" in the IETF-announce archive.

Ok, so we have the Document Shepherd Write-Up and the Draft Announcement
Write-Up.  If we're consistent and explicit about this, it works for me.

> [You'll note I made another change - we were asked by several
>  people to give a few good examples rather than just point to them.

Works for me.

>  I suggest for the Appendix one that Colin Perkins did for the rtp-midi-format
>  which has some of everything:
> 
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/public/pidtracker.cgi?command=print_ballot&ballot_id=1931&filename=draft-ietf-avt-rtp-midi-format
> 
> And for a non-Transport example:
> 
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/public/pidtracker.cgi?command=print_ballot&ballot_id=1834&filename=draft-ietf-imss-ip-over-fibre-channel

These look good.

> On this topic, there was another comment left unaddressed.  The IESG asked
> us if we could test the water for 1.i to say for Draft Anouncement
> Write-Ups for all documents, not just for Standards track and BCP.  
> It's getting rare for an AD-sponsored document not to have one now.
> Was there pushback?  I think we should now say it's the default.

Agreed.  In MIP4 we've mostly done this also for the non-stardards track
documents, too; for quite some time.

>  Even
> before this the third heading "Protocol Quality" was not always
> applicable, but it definitely needs to change to "Document Quality"
> in the event of broadening the SHOULD for 1.i.
> 
> Some more fixes:
> 
>   Under "Document Quality", add to the questions: "If there was a MIB
>   Doctor Review, Media type review, or other expert review, what was
>   its course (briefly)?  In the case of a media type review, on what
>   date was the request posted?"
> 
> There's a need to improve the handling of the discussion of 
> sensitive information.  Here's my suggestion.  
> 
> OLD:
>   The Document Shepherd MUST send the Document Shepherd Write-Up to the
>    Responsible Area Director and [e-mail] together with
>    the request to publish the document.  The Document Shepherd SHOULD
>    also send the write-up, minus any discussion of possible appeals, to
>    the working group mailing list.
> 
> NEW:
>    The Document Shepherd MUST send the Document Shepherd Write-Up to the
>    Responsible Area Director and [e-mail] together with
>    the request to publish the document.  The Document Shepherd SHOULD
>    also send the entire Document Shepherd Write-up to the working
>    group mailing list.  If there is information which may prove to
>    be sensitive, possible appeals or personal information, which the
>    Document Shepherd feels should be written up, it should be sent in
>    direct email to the Responsible Area Director, because the Document
>    Shepherd Write-up will be published openly in the tracker.

Good.

> I think the document title should be "Document Shepherding From WG Last Call to
> Approval"  and the header could be "Shepherding to Approval".  It does not
> touch shepherding anything post-approval (changes that come up, interactions
> with IANA and RFC Editor).

Works for me.

> Allison
> 
> P.S. Looking my contributions to this text, I think I've earned a place among
>      the authors, which doesn't push us over the limit.  No affiliation
>      still.  I need to be removed from the acknowledgements if so.
>      And I think we have commenters from ietf and wgchairs and the iesg who
>      need to be added to the acknowledgements - Brian, Thomas Narten, Bert
>      Wijnen, David Black, Magnus Westerlund, Carl Malamud, just say it's a partial
>      list.  I'm sure there are more, but I recall major input from all of these.

Works for me.

> P.P.S. The author list looks a little strange not being alphabetized.
>        We could use reverse alphabetical since Dave wrote most text,
>        But I think alphabetical would be rather ok too.

Whatever.  I'm not so sure about the statement that David wrote most
text, though; I seem to remember that much of the substance was there
when he took over from me as editor.  No big deal, either way ;-)


Best,

	Henrik

>> 
>> On Jun 12, 2006, at 16:16, Henrik Levkowetz wrote:
>> > Since the "write-up" referred to in (1.i) is *not* the Document  
>> > Shepherd
>> > Write-up, I think it is more misleading to referring to it as 'the  
>> > write-up'
>> > in a section concerned with the Document Shepherd Write-up.  It is  
>> > also
>> > not the questionnaire.  If anything, we have "questionnaire" +  
>> > "document
>> > summary" == "Document Shepherd Write-up".
>> 
>> Oops - you're right. I think I placed that piece of text somewhere  
>> else in my mental map of the document.
>> 
>> I'll make the change but not email another version just yet - maybe  
>> there are other comments?
>> 
>> Lars
>> -- 
>> Lars Eggert                                     NEC Network Laboratories
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --Apple-Mail-29-12733882
>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
>> Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature;
>> 	name=smime.p7s
>> Content-Disposition: attachment;
>> 	filename=smime.p7s
>> 
>> MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIKgzCCAyAw
>> ggKJoAMCAQICAw9TWTANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQQFADBiMQswCQYDVQQGEwJaQTElMCMGA1UEChMcVGhh
>> d3RlIENvbnN1bHRpbmcgKFB0eSkgTHRkLjEsMCoGA1UEAxMjVGhhd3RlIFBlcnNvbmFsIEZyZWVt
>> YWlsIElzc3VpbmcgQ0EwHhcNMDUwODE4MTAyOTU2WhcNMDYwODE4MTAyOTU2WjBgMQ8wDQYDVQQE
>> EwZFZ2dlcnQxDTALBgNVBCoTBExhcnMxFDASBgNVBAMTC0xhcnMgRWdnZXJ0MSgwJgYJKoZIhvcN
>> AQkBFhlsYXJzLmVnZ2VydEBuZXRsYWIubmVjLmRlMIIBIjANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQEFAAOCAQ8AMIIB
>> CgKCAQEA2gsuG8tAmM6U2ESsQjhcijJSq6oDG2c+KvvXJ/xcJXbSIOY8IInezIP0DP41H0gxwHNv
>> AyOuwM6nh0r2wOhzdr77GlKXiij0LoFOpurScPKsC9KTykGAfZtAuCnWIRdDo67Urcw1e306yYgK
>> xF1UzYwGamLalPjejQTRcjLPIbzM4c7fUN/sxmpkpzT2p6OCJDyPhBfSaZWtv3UEoKF+xssNYzOF
>> DRCTHcLc3iXgF7z7J0ud8maUAadfb/25Gm7tJHzBOEonMPkHx2N8Ci0qNce0MMH/LVOVQlNO5kYJ
>> vUJiT0du7LAo/hf8tq3luZrh/Cwc/313x6oKYVuHDBllrQIDAQABo2IwYDAqBgUrZQEEAQQhMB8C
>> AQAwGjAYAgEEBBNMMnVNeWZmQk5VYk5KSmNkWjJzMCQGA1UdEQQdMBuBGWxhcnMuZWdnZXJ0QG5l
>> dGxhYi5uZWMuZGUwDAYDVR0TAQH/BAIwADANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQQFAAOBgQAovojiq8758E/78nMS
>> vNvD4359F8XAICzWbhz6cXJaGzv1FJoQcV/RY1x6CQZDt9PqiPiqyQX+xLvqicmEURbGU5+aiWj2
>> usovQXd+Ts8Doj3tbjk35nD7Etc8a2+Y9fQRUS6spzgJr0fcq2FMYbDnOtf71Bn77KgckoUbIszu
>> mTCCAz8wggKooAMCAQICAQ0wDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQAwgdExCzAJBgNVBAYTAlpBMRUwEwYDVQQI
>> EwxXZXN0ZXJuIENhcGUxEjAQBgNVBAcTCUNhcGUgVG93bjEaMBgGA1UEChMRVGhhd3RlIENvbnN1
>> bHRpbmcxKDAmBgNVBAsTH0NlcnRpZmljYXRpb24gU2VydmljZXMgRGl2aXNpb24xJDAiBgNVBAMT
>> G1RoYXd0ZSBQZXJzb25hbCBGcmVlbWFpbCBDQTErMCkGCSqGSIb3DQEJARYccGVyc29uYWwtZnJl
>> ZW1haWxAdGhhd3RlLmNvbTAeFw0wMzA3MTcwMDAwMDBaFw0xMzA3MTYyMzU5NTlaMGIxCzAJBgNV
>> BAYTAlpBMSUwIwYDVQQKExxUaGF3dGUgQ29uc3VsdGluZyAoUHR5KSBMdGQuMSwwKgYDVQQDEyNU
>> aGF3dGUgUGVyc29uYWwgRnJlZW1haWwgSXNzdWluZyBDQTCBnzANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQEFAAOBjQAw
>> gYkCgYEAxKY8VXNV+065yplaHmjAdQRwnd/p/6Me7L3N9VvyGna9fww6YfK/Uc4B1OVQCjDXAmNa
>> LIkVcI7dyfArhVqqP3FWy688Cwfn8R+RNiQqE88r1fOCdz0Dviv+uxg+B79AgAJk16emu59l0cUq
>> VIUPSAR/p7bRPGEEQB5kGXJgt/sCAwEAAaOBlDCBkTASBgNVHRMBAf8ECDAGAQH/AgEAMEMGA1Ud
>> HwQ8MDowOKA2oDSGMmh0dHA6Ly9jcmwudGhhd3RlLmNvbS9UaGF3dGVQZXJzb25hbEZyZWVtYWls
>> Q0EuY3JsMAsGA1UdDwQEAwIBBjApBgNVHREEIjAgpB4wHDEaMBgGA1UEAxMRUHJpdmF0ZUxhYmVs
>> Mi0xMzgwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQADgYEASIzRUIPqCy7MDaNmrGcPf6+svsIXoUOWlJ1/TCG4+DYf
>> qi2fNi/A9BxQIJNwPP2t4WFiw9k6GX6EsZkbAMUaC4J0niVQlGLH2ydxVyWN3amcOY6MIE9lX5Xa
>> 9/eH1sYITq726jTlEBpbNU1341YheILcIRk13iSx0x1G/11fZU8wggQYMIIDgaADAgECAgEAMA0G
>> CSqGSIb3DQEBBQUAMIG/MQswCQYDVQQGEwJERTEcMBoGA1UECBQTQmFkZW4tV8N1ZXJ0dGVtYmVy
>> ZzETMBEGA1UEBxMKSGVpZGVsYmVyZzEXMBUGA1UEChMOTkVDIEV1cm9wZSBMdGQxHTAbBgNVBAsT
>> FE5ldHdvcmsgTGFib3JhdG9yaWVzMRswGQYDVQQDExJrb2JlLm5ldGxhYi5uZWMuZGUxKDAmBgkq
>> hkiG9w0BCQEWGWxhcnMuZWdnZXJ0QG5ldGxhYi5uZWMuZGUwHhcNMDQwNjE4MTE1MzA4WhcNMDkw
>> NjE3MTE1MzA4WjCBvzELMAkGA1UEBhMCREUxHDAaBgNVBAgUE0JhZGVuLVfDdWVydHRlbWJlcmcx
>> EzARBgNVBAcTCkhlaWRlbGJlcmcxFzAVBgNVBAoTDk5FQyBFdXJvcGUgTHRkMR0wGwYDVQQLExRO
>> ZXR3b3JrIExhYm9yYXRvcmllczEbMBkGA1UEAxMSa29iZS5uZXRsYWIubmVjLmRlMSgwJgYJKoZI
>> hvcNAQkBFhlsYXJzLmVnZ2VydEBuZXRsYWIubmVjLmRlMIGfMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBAQUAA4GNADCB
>> iQKBgQC0OQwsE86Rrt0Zs0GOCsYmkGpPwcCFvVpOijIPv1dGolr5a8+7hXSAgRlUyoclq9xfhsUT
>> wlU1qkvVRD3/QOfQyPUxQktxba2ksfsPAKUHovInWydC6rvLU89jtYGEdnRCyA+cEB/XcSADbd2z
>> 9/XK4A2cxmMQiYpXIphYQAxIBwIDAQABo4IBIDCCARwwHQYDVR0OBBYEFOh7L9eqGHnAhbJdO4PY
>> LYzxCaNNMIHsBgNVHSMEgeQwgeGAFOh7L9eqGHnAhbJdO4PYLYzxCaNNoYHFpIHCMIG/MQswCQYD
>> VQQGEwJERTEcMBoGA1UECBQTQmFkZW4tV8N1ZXJ0dGVtYmVyZzETMBEGA1UEBxMKSGVpZGVsYmVy
>> ZzEXMBUGA1UEChMOTkVDIEV1cm9wZSBMdGQxHTAbBgNVBAsTFE5ldHdvcmsgTGFib3JhdG9yaWVz
>> MRswGQYDVQQDExJrb2JlLm5ldGxhYi5uZWMuZGUxKDAmBgkqhkiG9w0BCQEWGWxhcnMuZWdnZXJ0
>> QG5ldGxhYi5uZWMuZGWCAQAwDAYDVR0TBAUwAwEB/zANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQUFAAOBgQCX6Ipd3AF9
>> 3FDzBaw3ZVvQzzCv/kGPBBzzrJ3n5u+4eQppmOifhuWHZfb8h8S++jqcoPHGVjjlP5PaFb+wL0NR
>> piBalRclikD3xIY/hFoxJ1AHCO0AzfFxEflO10b4+smMrBYJtk5d9EAhr5hEgoGCM7QijBtnCwZB
>> KLI9pFgW1zGCA6UwggOhAgEBMGkwYjELMAkGA1UEBhMCWkExJTAjBgNVBAoTHFRoYXd0ZSBDb25z
>> dWx0aW5nIChQdHkpIEx0ZC4xLDAqBgNVBAMTI1RoYXd0ZSBQZXJzb25hbCBGcmVlbWFpbCBJc3N1
>> aW5nIENBAgMPU1kwCQYFKw4DAhoFAKCCAhEwGAYJKoZIhvcNAQkDMQsGCSqGSIb3DQEHATAcBgkq
>> hkiG9w0BCQUxDxcNMDYwNjEyMTMyMzQ2WjAjBgkqhkiG9w0BCQQxFgQURW9xpWTE1r3Wkh4DMQBM
>> Q+ICmtkwgdYGCSsGAQQBgjcQBDGByDCBxTCBvzELMAkGA1UEBhMCREUxHDAaBgNVBAgUE0JhZGVu
>> LVfDdWVydHRlbWJlcmcxEzARBgNVBAcTCkhlaWRlbGJlcmcxFzAVBgNVBAoTDk5FQyBFdXJvcGUg
>> THRkMR0wGwYDVQQLExROZXR3b3JrIExhYm9yYXRvcmllczEbMBkGA1UEAxMSa29iZS5uZXRsYWIu
>> bmVjLmRlMSgwJgYJKoZIhvcNAQkBFhlsYXJzLmVnZ2VydEBuZXRsYWIubmVjLmRlAgEAMIHYBgsq
>> hkiG9w0BCRACCzGByKCBxTCBvzELMAkGA1UEBhMCREUxHDAaBgNVBAgUE0JhZGVuLVfDdWVydHRl
>> bWJlcmcxEzARBgNVBAcTCkhlaWRlbGJlcmcxFzAVBgNVBAoTDk5FQyBFdXJvcGUgTHRkMR0wGwYD
>> VQQLExROZXR3b3JrIExhYm9yYXRvcmllczEbMBkGA1UEAxMSa29iZS5uZXRsYWIubmVjLmRlMSgw
>> JgYJKoZIhvcNAQkBFhlsYXJzLmVnZ2VydEBuZXRsYWIubmVjLmRlAgEAMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBAQUA
>> BIIBAGH/Qt1svPFlNrM/yndoEcnMZGHex5FYTzODuJGWnZ8Sj37zTsFrN/L1zgqJxqb5qQCcLVfF
>> L7hp544lEn6jTOcB8vYprI0Ng+o57NDpqg+GgwZFXeDyhupuHvD6PRcDwS4iiHxwPx9ULpcjCD7G
>> cWSAxxDHdIQkZRXpN5lJ0OuXRJc83FsQDcC6Y9A5muNoymqrbMeqfSad+yh1zgs+ej09zE2Y4JLy
>> XMV9CoA3XpkCHH0QFpCsnleYXXRNpXxfFN85/JJCc9AH0gMOnaSlzLd0rdmcZtBPVaYgbvh0Z0gB
>> 3m4p5be9OObxjJnorAMogyG56wSA2bi3haGQv9jsMfkAAAAAAAA=
>> 
>> --Apple-Mail-29-12733882--
>> 
>> 
>> --===============0679166344==
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>> MIME-Version: 1.0
>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>> Content-Disposition: inline
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> proto-team mailing list
>> [e-mail]
>> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/proto-team
>> 
>> --===============0679166344==--
>> 
> 

_______________________________________________
proto-team mailing list
[e-mail]
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/proto-team