Re: [Qirg] I-D Action: draft-irtf-qirg-quantum-internet-use-cases-02.txt

Chonggang Wang <Chonggang.Wang@InterDigital.com> Fri, 13 November 2020 23:31 UTC

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From: Chonggang Wang <Chonggang.Wang@InterDigital.com>
To: Wojciech Kozlowski <W.Kozlowski@tudelft.nl>, Gelard Patrick <Patrick.Gelard@cnes.fr>, "qirg@irtf.org" <qirg@irtf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Qirg] I-D Action: draft-irtf-qirg-quantum-internet-use-cases-02.txt
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Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2020 23:30:30 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Qirg] I-D Action: draft-irtf-qirg-quantum-internet-use-cases-02.txt
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Hi Wojtek,

Thank you for your comments. They look reasonable and we plan to update the draft quickly after IETF-109.  Also it would be good to discuss them a bit in the QIRG meeting as you commented,  if we have time so that we are sure that we understand them properly.

Thanks,
Chonggang

-----Original Message-----
From: Wojciech Kozlowski <W.Kozlowski@tudelft.nl>
Sent: Friday, November 13, 2020 12:53 PM
To: Chonggang Wang <Chonggang.Wang@InterDigital.com>om>; Gelard Patrick <Patrick.Gelard@cnes.fr>fr>; qirg@irtf.org
Subject: RE: [Qirg] I-D Action: draft-irtf-qirg-quantum-internet-use-cases-02.txt

Hi Chonggang,

I've now read your newest draft fully. Apologies it took so long, I did plan to do that shortly after you responded to my previous e-mail. I do think it has significantly improved since the first version! I do have a few remarks.

My main remarks are about section 5:

1. I think that from just reading section 5.1 and 5.2 it would be hard for a non-expert to understand how these schemes actually achieve their goal. You describe the steps required to execute the protocol, but I think that unless you already know how these schemes work it would be hard to understand why QKD is secure or how blind quantum computing is able to execute the desired computation without knowing the input. For example, in section 5.2 you write that the source data is not sent to the server, but instead you send some qubits and measurement instructions. It's not immediately obvious to me how that translates to a practical computation. For QKD you could write something along the lines that there is the no-cloning theorem and that there is a classical post-processing in which part of the key is revealed to detect an eavesdropper. Something similar should be done for the blind quantum computing section, but I have no suggestions as I'm not an expert on this.

I think this is important thing to consider in a use-case document. To a classical reader these protocols will seem like they work thanks to some unspecified "magic" which means they are less likely to trust it. A rigorous mathematical proof is not necessary beyond referencing them in literature, but at least some level of intuition as to where this "magic" comes from would be useful.

2. For 5.3, the distributed quantum computing case you've reduced the problem to teleporting qubits. That is a valid approach, but generally in quantum network applications teleporting quantum data is not the fundamental networking unit. Entangled qubits are. There are distributed quantum computation protocols which do not rely or use teleportation (see https://dl.acm.org/doi/abs/10.1145/1412700.1412718) and one can even execute gates non-locally (https://arxiv.org/pdf/quant-ph/0005101.pdf) which could potentially be more resource efficient compared to teleportation. I think it would be hard to give one procedure that generically describes distributed quantum computing so for this use case perhaps one or two concrete examples would be useful.

And some less important nits:

[Page 3]:
* "a Quantum Internet" - should this be capitalized if you are not writing "*the* Quantum Internet"?
* "The Quantum Internet will operate according to unique physical principles such as quantum superposition, entanglement and teleportation" - I'd remove "teleportation" from this list as it's more an application rather than a physical principle.
* "The Quantum Internet is not anticipated to replace the Classical Internet." - I would add that it is in fact meant to enhance it. You do write that later on somewhere, but I think it would be nice to really emphasize at the beginning. I would also remove the next sentence "For instance, Local Operations and Classical Communication (LOCC) tasks [Chitambar] rely on classical communications." Whilst it is factually correct, it gives the impression that the reason the Quantum Internet is not replacing the Classical Internet is because LOCC need the Classical Internet. However, the more fundamental reason is that most tasks are still more efficiently achieved using the Classical Internet, but we enhance some aspects (like cybersecurity) with a Quantum Internet.
* Inconsistent "classical Internet" capitalization. Sometimes you write *C*lassical, sometime *c*lassical.

[Page 6]

* Several of the applications in these lists have classical equivalents, such as secure communication, byzantine negotiation, network clock synchronization. I think it would be very valuable to explain what's different about these applications in the Quantum Internet (i.e. how are they better). For example, for clock synchronization you write "ultra precise". What is "ultra precise"?

[Page 7]

* I'm still not 100% clear on the distinction between control and data plane in this context. However, I do not know how to express my confusion in written words. I will ask this as a question on Monday at the meeting.

[Page 10]

* "Prepare-and-measure" is used before it's defined which you do later on in the text.

[Page 10/16]

* Basic/E2E/Advanced E2E QKD. The text does not really make it clear what the difference is between these three. This should be further expanded.

[Page 11]

* Whilst privacy for a home user using an Alexa is important, that's not really what's going to make blind quantum computing a big use case seeing how most users nowadays are not overly concerned about that. However, the type more likely to be interested in blind quantum computing is the user that avoids cloud computing for security reasons (governments, enterprises processing of sensitive data, etc) so perhaps it would be better to rephrase the blind quantum computing use case in this context. Especially given that the Quantonation VC has placed Blind Computing at the highest disruption potential (https://secure-web.cisco.com/1WZpEXxZrXotHkvuPe63GcL7qmsKLmR67RelkY51dzTqhe_ly_03m_XD8TMqCckrKAF88nPS2jncKfJ2ohf91bjkTxoEhoyc_LTNdj_1MOm2Kz3okINqTZCT2ahqoPttgHIx2IFXnJ232uWvr7Ge4m8z21APL90CRI-w4OniYftS9Nmm9FIdKpsfQdEv4vcq8xuWIPwYdI1GaJmZIr_HY0Z1uymd3X0DPrMJnSO1atCiHjkjoNsMt-FSC9jRtZ2HOyy9yads_ddDXeTzEO2T6x-ULUUJ0v3lGg3YzsVNKG1gtdwv_r9RezjkisoElfweSbe4Vud9VyF-VAmXOFmV8CxHVgQo_KLbcPSGUgZKg6DN0S-ek6nQgQTySd8TCrdrTQXxnYojp0k65JWJMKMoqtjoINUd8ZkRtdphLit0Fe2PYGePDBS2lMBCeFgVJeEHUjY5rC0nOh93QNbh0mtkOpMQcLXSwRzh0S34HXc7aOlc/https%3A%2F%2Fwww.quantonation.com%2Fportfolio%2F).


We can discuss all these points at the Monday meeting as well.

Cheers,
Wojtek

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chonggang Wang <Chonggang.Wang@InterDigital.com>
> Sent: 30 October 2020 18:35
> To: Gelard Patrick <Patrick.Gelard@cnes.fr>fr>; Wojciech Kozlowski
> <W.Kozlowski@tudelft.nl>nl>; qirg@irtf.org
> Subject: RE: [Qirg] I-D Action:
> draft-irtf-qirg-quantum-internet-use-cases-
> 02.txt
>
> Dear Patrick, Wojtek,
>
> I have not received any further comments from QIRG since our last
> email discussion.
>
> I was starting to capture and reflect what we have discussed in email;
> as a result of that, v03 of the use case document was just uploaded.
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-
> 3A__datatracker.ietf.org_doc_draft-2Dirtf-2Dqirg-2Dquantum-2Dinternet-
> 2Duse-2Dcases_&d=DwIFAw&c=XYzUhXBD2cD-CornpT4QE19xOJBbRy-
> TBPLK0X9U2o8&r=xRe3k8UnFVGCjuC7RWUARpslGfYlRaP7D3dVZXHUEVc&m
> =VeJqHzAwL4wIrBV5oEzLQYV0uK2E1da6PDefT8y3bPE&s=6zd5Pk7yYkm-
> aNAqkz3dmokDu47kB3fhF-gjXgiCaw4&e=
>
> In v03, I replaced "quantum subnetworks" with "quantum network" to
> avoid potential confusions, since "quantum network" can be applied to
> both quantum internet control plane & data plane as being discussed,
> although subnetwork was indeed adopted in some IETF RFCs.
>
> Thank you again for your review and feedback for improving the document.
>
> Chonggang
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gelard Patrick <Patrick.Gelard@cnes.fr>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2020 3:39 AM
> To: Chonggang Wang <Chonggang.Wang@InterDigital.com>om>; Wojciech
> Kozlowski <W.Kozlowski@tudelft.nl>nl>; qirg@irtf.org
> Subject: RE: [Qirg] I-D Action:
> draft-irtf-qirg-quantum-internet-use-cases-
> 02.txt
>
> [PG2]
>
> Best regards
> Patrick
>
> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : Chonggang Wang <Chonggang.Wang@InterDigital.com> Envoyé : mardi
> 13 octobre 2020 15:52 À : Gelard Patrick <Patrick.Gelard@cnes.fr>fr>;
> Wojciech Kozlowski <W.Kozlowski@tudelft.nl>nl>; qirg@irtf.org Objet : RE:
> [Qirg] I-D
> Action: draft-irtf-qirg-quantum-internet-use-cases-02.txt
>
> Hello Patrick,
>
> Thank you for your explanation (and of course previous inputs) on
> quantum network vs quantum internet.
>
> I include additional feedback below with [CW].
>
> Thanks,
> Chonggang
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gelard Patrick <Patrick.Gelard@cnes.fr>
> Sent: Friday, October 9, 2020 8:41 AM
> To: Wojciech Kozlowski <W.Kozlowski@tudelft.nl>nl>; Chonggang Wang
> <Chonggang.Wang@InterDigital.com>om>; qirg@irtf.org
> Subject: RE: [Qirg] I-D Action:
> draft-irtf-qirg-quantum-internet-use-cases-
> 02.txt
>
> Hi all
>
> Answer in the text [PG]
>
> Best regards
> Patrick
>
>
> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : Wojciech Kozlowski <W.Kozlowski@tudelft.nl> Envoyé : jeudi 8
> octobre
> 2020 10:34 À : Gelard Patrick <Patrick.Gelard@cnes.fr>fr>; Chonggang Wang
> <Chonggang.Wang@InterDigital.com>om>; qirg@irtf.org Objet : RE: [Qirg]
> I-D
> Action: draft-irtf-qirg-quantum-internet-use-cases-02.txt
>
> Hi all,
>
> I started going through the new draft and I have some questions that
> would help me before I progress further:
> * I am struggling to understand the difference between Quantum
> Subnetwork and Quantum Internet. Is the difference the same as between
> a classical subnetwork and the classical Internet? The definitions in
> the text are too vague for me.
>
> [PG] I had asked to distinguish between the notions of quantum
> networks and quantum internet resulting from the analogy with the
> classical internet (INTER-NETwork).
> This distinction should be in accordance with the paragraph "5.4.
> Network boundaries" from  the draft Principles for a Quantum Internet".
>
> For the Classical Internet. In today's Internet, two forms of
> interconnection model exists between networks: peering and transit.
> The peering is a process where two Internet networks connect and
> exchange traffic. There are two main types of peering:  Public peering
> is typically done through an Internet Exchange Point (IXP :
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-
> 3A__en.wikipedia.org_wiki_Internet-5Fexchange-
> 5Fpoint&d=DwIFAw&c=XYzUhXBD2cD-CornpT4QE19xOJBbRy-
> TBPLK0X9U2o8&r=xRe3k8UnFVGCjuC7RWUARpslGfYlRaP7D3dVZXHUEVc&m
> =VeJqHzAwL4wIrBV5oEzLQYV0uK2E1da6PDefT8y3bPE&s=5kI1WCQMh6EVrO
> 4BARX-i_x0gMiH0OfzTsfR8ki_Jls&e=  ) and private peering which is when
> two or more networks agree to exchange their traffic in a private establishment.
> Peering cannot be enough for everything, because two operators can
> simply be too far apart for that [.] We then call on operators who
> have a larger presence on the planet, the "forwarders". The various
> forwarders connect to each other through peering agreements and the loop is closed.
> When we talk about these subjects from a technical point of view, we
> sometimes talk about Tier 1, 2 and 3 actors. The largest are the
> so-called Tier
> 1 operators ( https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-
> 3A__en.wikipedia.org_wiki_Tier-5F1-
> 5Fnetwork&d=DwIFAw&c=XYzUhXBD2cD-CornpT4QE19xOJBbRy-
> TBPLK0X9U2o8&r=xRe3k8UnFVGCjuC7RWUARpslGfYlRaP7D3dVZXHUEVc&m
> =VeJqHzAwL4wIrBV5oEzLQYV0uK2E1da6PDefT8y3bPE&s=_ZuLdu7xbYpWRq
> EEsX4-WNFrvX2dUWr6RsYFb6eDFhk&e=  ) . They have developed a long
> distance network and have direct interconnections with other major
> operators worldwide. They do not use any transit service to access all
> of the networks that make up the Internet.
> Example in France https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-
> 3A__www.arcep.fr_fileadmin_reprise_observatoire_ipv6_Barometer-5Fof-
> 5FData-5Finterconnection-5Fin-5FFrance-
> 5F2020.pdf&d=DwIFAw&c=XYzUhXBD2cD-CornpT4QE19xOJBbRy-
> TBPLK0X9U2o8&r=xRe3k8UnFVGCjuC7RWUARpslGfYlRaP7D3dVZXHUEVc&m
> =VeJqHzAwL4wIrBV5oEzLQYV0uK2E1da6PDefT8y3bPE&s=GjyByON0CIdykk5
> GCcfQS-lltj-NRom0B9zT7mZ6J04&e=
>
> The quantum internet will also be a network of networks where the
> concept of network interconnection (interconnection of quantum
> autonomous
> system) will surely also play an important role. From a technical
> point of view, different quantum interconnection modes should also
> emerge from the schemes identified in the paragraph "4.4.1.
> Elementary link generation", in order to propagate the entanglement between distinct quantum networks.
>
> [CW]: Peering is connecting between Internet Autonomous Systems.
> However, an Autonomous System itself may be made of many subnets.  So
> I don't think an autonomous system and subnet are identical. But I
> tend to agree "Quantum Subnetwork vs Quantum Internet" is similar to
> "subnetwork vs Internet" that we have today. It's envisioned that in
> the future Quantum Internet as a global infrastructure will consist of various "smaller networks"
> (e.g., for an organization, located in a region, etc.), which is
> referred to "Quantum Subnetwork".  We will rephases both definitions
> and make them more clear. We can update the draft to clarify these
> concepts as they will be required to integrate to the rest of the Internet.
> [PG2] Why do you use the term subnetwork instead of Network ? When we
> talk about the Internet, we often refer to the notion of  network of
> networks that consists of private, public, academic, business, and
> government networks of local to global scope, linked by a broad array
> of electronic, wireless, and optical networking technologies. The
> concept of autonomous networks enables reflected the fact that the
> Internet has no single centralized governance in either technological
> implementation or policies for access and usage; each constituent network sets its own policies.
> The fundamental element on which the notion of the internet is based
> is the concept of "network interconnection" (example of quantum
> interconnection of different physical platforms :
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-
> 3A__phys.org_news_2020-2D06-2Dquantum-
> 2Dinternet.html&d=DwIFAw&c=XYzUhXBD2cD-CornpT4QE19xOJBbRy-
> TBPLK0X9U2o8&r=xRe3k8UnFVGCjuC7RWUARpslGfYlRaP7D3dVZXHUEVc&m
> =VeJqHzAwL4wIrBV5oEzLQYV0uK2E1da6PDefT8y3bPE&s=5Q_YEzs9xWKYRgF
> sBckPrhrpliKyTOzzd-i5fa38YgI&e= ).
>
>
> * Additionally, some further comments in-line below in response to
> Patrick's comments.
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Qirg <qirg-bounces@irtf.org> On Behalf Of Gelard Patrick
> > Sent: 07 October 2020 16:18
> > To: Chonggang Wang <Chonggang.Wang@InterDigital.com>om>; qirg@irtf.org
> > Subject: Re: [Qirg] I-D Action:
> > draft-irtf-qirg-quantum-internet-use-cases-
> > 02.txt
> >
> > Dear Chonggang,
> >
> > Somes feedback
> >
> > 1/ 4.3.  Control vs Data Plane Classification  The internet draft
> > "Principles for a Quantum Internet" doesn't seem to mention a native
> > quantum control plan (i.e based on quantum communication, E.g quatum
> ping) :
> >
> > Control plane protocols for quantum networks will have  responsibilities
> > similar to their classical counterparts, namely   drawing the network
> topology,
> > resource management, populating data   plane tables, etc.  They will not
> > manipulate quantum data themselves   and they operate by exchanging
> > classical messages only.  Therefore   there is no separate quantum and
> > classical control plane.  There is   only one network control plane.
> >
> > Should we not make these two documents consistent?
> >
>
> [WK] Patrick is right. It would be beneficial to get these two
> documents consistent and he is also right that with the latest changes
> I made I seem to exclude a quantum ping from the control plane. This is worth picking up on.
> As a start, a question to everybody: is the definition in the
> principles draft too strict then?
>
> > 2/ 6.2.  Requirements
> > In coherence with "Quantum internet: A vision for the road ahead"
> > and "Principles for a Quantum Internet" should it not be necessary
> > to define system metrics making it possible to express the quality
> > of service requirements expected by the quantum applications I.e
> > expected entanglement fidelity,  loss tolerance, error tolerance,
> > Bell pair rate, Bell pair traffic profil (i.e bursty profil. For
> > example if we use satellite LEO to generate Bell pair we may be
> > interested in wanting to know what would be the impact on
> > applications of Bell pair transmission breaks during phases of
> > non-visibility of the satellite by ground stations), latence, time synchronization of nodes, ...  ?
> >
>
> [WK] I think these numbers would be great, but really hard to come up
> with without a more detailed analysis. However, identifying which
> stage an application requires is already quite informative in terms of requirements.
> For example, identifying whether we only need a "quantum memory" stage
> network vs "fault-tolerant" already tells us a lot.
>
> > Best Regards
> > Patrick
> >
> > -----Message d'origine-----
> > De : Qirg <qirg-bounces@irtf.org> De la part de Chonggang Wang Envoyé :
> > mercredi 30 septembre 2020 16:06 À : qirg@irtf.org Objet : Re:
> > [Qirg] I-D
> > Action: draft-irtf-qirg-quantum-internet-use-cases-02.txt
> >
> > Dear QIRG,
> >
> > Quantum internet use cases have been updated to address the comments
> > received during IETF July meeting. Please refer to
> > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-
> > 3A__datatracker.ietf.org_doc_draft-2Dirtf-2Dqirg-2Dquantum-2Dinterne
> > t-
> > 2Duse-2Dcases_&d=DwIFAw&c=XYzUhXBD2cD-CornpT4QE19xOJBbRy-
> >
> TBPLK0X9U2o8&r=xRe3k8UnFVGCjuC7RWUARpslGfYlRaP7D3dVZXHUEVc&m
> >
> =vRyl9_Ww9DdYXXeBUp6F4AhPhy7qC0fH2FLcbGIntTI&s=ScCiYNV0YHMuwv
> > Q9EO9Pg2DpMUILknHf77NGTuuu24Q&e= .
> >
> > We would like to get your feedback on this new version and if the
> > use case draft can be considered for next steps.
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Chonggang
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Qirg <qirg-bounces@irtf.org> On Behalf Of
> > internet-drafts@ietf.org
> > Sent: Friday, September 18, 2020 7:46 AM
> > To: i-d-announce@ietf.org
> > Cc: qirg@irtf.org
> > Subject: [Qirg] I-D Action:
> > draft-irtf-qirg-quantum-internet-use-cases-02.txt
> >
> >
> > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
> directories.
> > This draft is a work item of the Quantum Internet Research Group RG
> > of the IRTF.
> >
> >         Title           : Applications and Use Cases for the Quantum Internet
> >         Authors         : Chonggang Wang
> >                           Akbar Rahman
> >                           Ruidong Li
> >                           Melchior Aelmans
> > Filename        : draft-irtf-qirg-quantum-internet-use-cases-02.txt
> > Pages           : 23
> > Date            : 2020-09-18
> >
> > Abstract:
> >    The Quantum Internet has the potential to improve application
> >    functionality by incorporating quantum information technology into
> >    the infrastructure of the overall Internet.  In this document, we
> >    provide an overview of some applications expected to be used on the
> >    Quantum Internet, and then categorize them using various
> >    classification schemes.  Some general requirements for the Quantum
> >    Internet are also discussed.  The intent of this document is to
> >    provide a common understanding and framework of applications and use
> >    cases for the Quantum Internet.
> >
> >
> > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
> > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-
> > 3A__datatracker.ietf.org_doc_draft-2Dirtf-2Dqirg-2Dquantum-2Dinterne
> > t-
> > 2Duse-2Dcases_&d=DwIFAw&c=XYzUhXBD2cD-CornpT4QE19xOJBbRy-
> >
> TBPLK0X9U2o8&r=xRe3k8UnFVGCjuC7RWUARpslGfYlRaP7D3dVZXHUEVc&m
> >
> =vRyl9_Ww9DdYXXeBUp6F4AhPhy7qC0fH2FLcbGIntTI&s=ScCiYNV0YHMuwv
> > Q9EO9Pg2DpMUILknHf77NGTuuu24Q&e=
> >
> > There are also htmlized versions available at:
> > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-
> > 3A__tools.ietf.org_html_draft-2Dirtf-2Dqirg-2Dquantum-2Dinternet-2Du
> > se
> > -
> > 2Dcases-2D02&d=DwIFAw&c=XYzUhXBD2cD-CornpT4QE19xOJBbRy-
> >
> TBPLK0X9U2o8&r=xRe3k8UnFVGCjuC7RWUARpslGfYlRaP7D3dVZXHUEVc&m
> >
> =vRyl9_Ww9DdYXXeBUp6F4AhPhy7qC0fH2FLcbGIntTI&s=KSHcjW7jCfeh3ws
> > S75EyRdWTPdm6wox1tKWCh0i_EoU&e=
> > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-
> > 3A__datatracker.ietf.org_doc_html_draft-2Dirtf-2Dqirg-2Dquantum-
> > 2Dinternet-2Duse-2Dcases-2D02&d=DwIFAw&c=XYzUhXBD2cD-
> > CornpT4QE19xOJBbRy-
> >
> TBPLK0X9U2o8&r=xRe3k8UnFVGCjuC7RWUARpslGfYlRaP7D3dVZXHUEVc&m
> > =vRyl9_Ww9DdYXXeBUp6F4AhPhy7qC0fH2FLcbGIntTI&s=PqYaD-
> > P1uYemX5KMDp67_mL8sz6KYBE_pwkE869Nhgs&e=
> >
> > A diff from the previous version is available at:
> > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-
> > 3A__www.ietf.org_rfcdiff-3Furl2-3Ddraft-2Dirtf-2Dqirg-2Dquantum-
> > 2Dinternet-2Duse-2Dcases-2D02&d=DwIFAw&c=XYzUhXBD2cD-
> > CornpT4QE19xOJBbRy-
> >
> TBPLK0X9U2o8&r=xRe3k8UnFVGCjuC7RWUARpslGfYlRaP7D3dVZXHUEVc&m
> >
> =vRyl9_Ww9DdYXXeBUp6F4AhPhy7qC0fH2FLcbGIntTI&s=V3FasdcOnxQiM6s
> > yp-OClMyL9y9IsvAr0m4m2DTaY2g&e=
> >
> >
> > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of
> > submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
> >
> > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
> > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=ftp-3A__ftp.ietf.org_inte
> > rn
> > et-
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> > UFXZM-cw47xdeFD55h3U9TQqMHx4Yg&e=
> >
> >
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