Re: [Qirg] [Fwd: [Fwd: Re: draft-irtf-qirg-principles: goals and principles]]
Joey S <joeysalazar@article19.org> Mon, 27 July 2020 16:41 UTC
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From: Joey S <joeysalazar@article19.org>
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Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2020 10:41:25 -0600
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Subject: Re: [Qirg] [Fwd: [Fwd: Re: draft-irtf-qirg-principles: goals and principles]]
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In section 6.1. Goals of a quantum internet, in a similar way to this quote on point 2,
>>It should not be constrained due to considerations for early-stage hardware and applications
I think point 5. Make them easy to monitor,
>>In order to manage, evaluate the performance of, or debug a network it is necessary to have the ability to monitor the network.
should/could include "while ensuring there'll be mechanisms in place to protect the confidentiality and integrity of the devices connected to it".
This would be so as not to repeat the limitations we currently deal with in, say, the DNS, which having been designed as an unencrypted point for control and administration, has suffered heavy exploitation and continues to be a source of debate on how to make it more secure now, decades after its design.
>>Furthermore, given one end of an entangled pair, it is impossible to tell where the other qubit is without any additional classical information.
Would there be a need for some type of metadata then? or duplicate qubits for monitoring purposes?
>>This implies that tracking entangled pairs necessitates some exchange of classical information.
Some definition on what classical information would need to be exchanged would also be good.
On point 6. Ensure availability and resilience, and mostly out of curiosity, are there any projections/estimates on where will quantum networks be available? Will the implementation/deployment costs be too high so as to restrict its access/use to developed countries? or is it foreseeable that at some point all sectors of society could benefit from it?
Lastly, in section 8. Security Considerations
>>Even though no user data enters a quantum network
Could I be pointed to references that explain this part please? Is user data confined to classical channels? Apologies if that's already somewhere in this draft and I missed it.
Thank you all,
-- Joey Salazar Digital Sr. Programme Officer ARTICLE 19 6E9C 95E5 5BED 9413 5D08 55D5 0A40 4136 0DF0 1A91
Dear QIRG,
I have updated the doc following the feedback received at the interim meeting. You can find the latest version here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-irtf-qirg-principles/" rel="nofollow">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-irtf-qirg-principles/
Relevant GitHub commit: https://github.com/Wojtek242/draft-irtf-qirg-principles/commit/7eac21009e6bc61dc894b435a2b8ed83a1f708d1" rel="nofollow"> https://github.com/Wojtek242/draft-irtf-qirg-principles/commit/7eac21009e6bc61dc894b435a2b8ed83a1f708d1
Cheers,Wojtek
On Tue, 2020-06-09 at 15:04 +0000, Wojciech Kozlowski wrote:Dear QIRG,
Please find the minutes from todays meeting: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__datatracker.ietf.org_doc_minutes-2Dinterim-2D2020-2Dqirg-2D02-2D202006091200_&d=DwMGaQ&c=XYzUhXBD2cD-CornpT4QE19xOJBbRy-TBPLK0X9U2o8&r=xRe3k8UnFVGCjuC7RWUARpslGfYlRaP7D3dVZXHUEVc&m=3UtwgpYIyBH0OlOde1RI0qyRNpRqoEXR6eevTt_JmfU&s=0E5lFGAHVav9aGQVjoWXlK8t24xARTagTfdrlJs_c0E&e=" rel="nofollow"> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/minutes-interim-2020-qirg-02-202006091200/Blue sheets: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__datatracker.ietf.org_doc_bluesheets-2Dinterim-2D2020-2Dqirg-2D02-2D202006091200_&d=DwMGaQ&c=XYzUhXBD2cD-CornpT4QE19xOJBbRy-TBPLK0X9U2o8&r=xRe3k8UnFVGCjuC7RWUARpslGfYlRaP7D3dVZXHUEVc&m=3UtwgpYIyBH0OlOde1RI0qyRNpRqoEXR6eevTt_JmfU&s=qqW478sZ2Sy0SJBfBt91i9I_1VvwRGP-7knj1N9tzs0&e=" rel="nofollow"> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/bluesheets-interim-2020-qirg-02-202006091200/
If you have any remarks as to the above, please let me know and I'll upload a revision.
My next step will be to include all the points raised in the meeting + some that were raised on the mailing list over the past few months (including Shota's generation PR).
I will write a separate e-mail about the discussion we agreed to take to the mailing list.
Cheers,Wojtek
On Tue, 2020-06-09 at 11:56 +0000, Wojciech Kozlowski wrote:5 miutes
On Tue, 2020-06-09 at 07:21 +0000, Wojciech Kozlowski wrote:Dear QIRG,
Reminder that this call is today at 12:00 UTC.
draft link: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__github.com_Wojtek242_draft-2Dirtf-2Dqirg-2Dprinciples_blob_master_draft-2Dirtf-2Dqirg-2Dprinciples-2D03.txt&d=DwMGaQ&c=XYzUhXBD2cD-CornpT4QE19xOJBbRy-TBPLK0X9U2o8&r=xRe3k8UnFVGCjuC7RWUARpslGfYlRaP7D3dVZXHUEVc&m=HRf6jLamfSYGnMMqMf0Cs1z39p5qK9L8oYmqWvtXXmo&s=L77eDXXtEGeNu_FStkATdWb4GNi41Ha30a3FSfPvT4Q&e=" rel="nofollow"> https://github.com/Wojtek242/draft-irtf-qirg-principles/blob/master/draft-irtf-qirg-principles-03.txtWebEx link: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__ietf.webex.com_ietf_j.php-3FMTID-3Dmd099578b71f8df25a5fb5d22e3d9916c&d=DwMGaQ&c=XYzUhXBD2cD-CornpT4QE19xOJBbRy-TBPLK0X9U2o8&r=xRe3k8UnFVGCjuC7RWUARpslGfYlRaP7D3dVZXHUEVc&m=UqAYKE7-mixIeOQ0cnSwotM-DtGiE0KExtvoqiwyyuo&s=EUDaCs5iBZPxWCEFagjk9bpukLs5h2Uzr2zxn5itMVA&e=" rel="nofollow">https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=md099578b71f8df25a5fb5d22e3d9916c
Calender event: attached
Regards,Wojtek
-------- Forwarded Message --------From: Wojciech Kozlowski <W.Kozlowski@tudelft.nl>Subject: [Qirg] [Fwd: Re: draft-irtf-qirg-principles: goals and principles]Date: Wed, 03 Jun 2020 10:07:14 +0000
Dear QIRG,
A reminder that there is a virtual interim call next week (9 June 12:00 UTC) to discuss section 6 of the Architectural Principles draft: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__datatracker.ietf.org_meeting_interim-2D2020-2Dqirg-2D02_session_qirg&d=DwMGaQ&c=XYzUhXBD2cD-CornpT4QE19xOJBbRy-TBPLK0X9U2o8&r=xRe3k8UnFVGCjuC7RWUARpslGfYlRaP7D3dVZXHUEVc&m=UqAYKE7-mixIeOQ0cnSwotM-DtGiE0KExtvoqiwyyuo&s=YHSm-T12nUZrE_jrab4A6kNRnuX68d5Y0L5N_2JictQ&e=" rel="nofollow"> https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2020-qirg-02/session/qirgWebEx link: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__ietf.webex.com_ietf_j.php-3FMTID-3Dmd099578b71f8df25a5fb5d22e3d9916c&d=DwMGaQ&c=XYzUhXBD2cD-CornpT4QE19xOJBbRy-TBPLK0X9U2o8&r=xRe3k8UnFVGCjuC7RWUARpslGfYlRaP7D3dVZXHUEVc&m=UqAYKE7-mixIeOQ0cnSwotM-DtGiE0KExtvoqiwyyuo&s=EUDaCs5iBZPxWCEFagjk9bpukLs5h2Uzr2zxn5itMVA&e=" rel="nofollow"> https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=md099578b71f8df25a5fb5d22e3d9916c
Calender event: attached
The aim of this call is to step over section 6, review existing points, discuss, and suggest any additions. Experienced advice from people who helped build/witnessed/understand the current Internet architecture and its evolution would be very useful. This section is less about quantum, but more about how to correctly apply the lessons from the classical Internet to the Quantum Internet.
This is the last item that needs a discussion. Following this call I plan to include the feedback that's still waiting on my todo pile (including the generations pull request from Shota) and prepare a final version for top-down review by July.
A summary of the current content is below. Actual content is: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__github.com_Wojtek242_draft-2Dirtf-2Dqirg-2Dprinciples_blob_master_draft-2Dirtf-2Dqirg-2Dprinciples-2D03.txt-23L1128&d=DwMGaQ&c=XYzUhXBD2cD-CornpT4QE19xOJBbRy-TBPLK0X9U2o8&r=xRe3k8UnFVGCjuC7RWUARpslGfYlRaP7D3dVZXHUEVc&m=UqAYKE7-mixIeOQ0cnSwotM-DtGiE0KExtvoqiwyyuo&s=L-OhdnsOipa_jHS3oI5HUmagGfohSSrN2DfqaslWPCU&e=" rel="nofollow"> https://github.com/Wojtek242/draft-irtf-qirg-principles/blob/master/draft-irtf-qirg-principles-03.txt#L1128
6.1. Goals of a quantum internet
1. Support distributed quantum applications2. Support tomorrow's distributed quantum applications3. Support hardware heterogeneity4. Be flexible with regards to hardware capabilities and limitations5. Ensure security at the network level6. Make them easy to manage and monitor7. Ensure availability and resilience
6.2. The principles of a quantum internet
1. Bell Pairs are the fundamental building block2. Bell Pairs are indistinguishable3. Fidelity is part of the service4. Time is part of the service
Cheers,Wojtek
-------- Forwarded Message --------From: Wojciech Kozlowski <W.Kozlowski@tudelft.nl>Subject: Re: [Qirg] draft-irtf-qirg-principles: goals and principlesDate: Tue, 19 May 2020 15:03:57 +0000
I have scheduled a virtual meeting on June 9 at 12:00 UTC. Below are the call details and a calendar event is attached.
Datatracker: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__datatracker.ietf.org_meeting_interim-2D2020-2Dqirg-2D02_session_qirg&d=DwMGaQ&c=XYzUhXBD2cD-CornpT4QE19xOJBbRy-TBPLK0X9U2o8&r=xRe3k8UnFVGCjuC7RWUARpslGfYlRaP7D3dVZXHUEVc&m=-iwocpdAvMs7ofFlum62h97vL8XRmDsmdE_7LfPYOZw&s=VwFiCHrZU36SWb5sBIn67YJdR3xCBJA8cPuI4T3V7Mw&e=" rel="nofollow"> https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2020-qirg-02/session/qirgAgenda: Review section 6 of https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__datatracker.ietf.org_doc_draft-2Dirtf-2Dqirg-2Dprinciples_&d=DwMGaQ&c=XYzUhXBD2cD-CornpT4QE19xOJBbRy-TBPLK0X9U2o8&r=xRe3k8UnFVGCjuC7RWUARpslGfYlRaP7D3dVZXHUEVc&m=-iwocpdAvMs7ofFlum62h97vL8XRmDsmdE_7LfPYOZw&s=AoP6qfV_9aplrHEusjOETDayvRmG6Kjnxgzrt3L4zko&e=" rel="nofollow"> draft-irtf-qirg-principles and discuss possible additions
draft-irtf-qirg-principles: goals and principlesHosted by Quantum Internet Research Group
Tuesday, Jun 9, 2020 5:00 am | 1 hour | (UTC-07:00) Pacific Time (US & Canada)Meeting number: 617 400 539Password: a37wSAQ2DDZAgenda: Review section 6 of draft and discuss possible additionshttps://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__ietf.webex.com_ietf_j.php-3FMTID-3Dmd099578b71f8df25a5fb5d22e3d9916c&d=DwMGaQ&c=XYzUhXBD2cD-CornpT4QE19xOJBbRy-TBPLK0X9U2o8&r=xRe3k8UnFVGCjuC7RWUARpslGfYlRaP7D3dVZXHUEVc&m=-iwocpdAvMs7ofFlum62h97vL8XRmDsmdE_7LfPYOZw&s=-uUlPhMMrCGqjr-kXFUPw91e_E_woH5t3OClz4dBDQg&e=" rel="nofollow">https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=md099578b71f8df25a5fb5d22e3d9916c
Join by video systemYou can also dial 173.243.2.68 and enter your meeting number.
Join by phone1-650-479-3208 Call-in toll number (US/Canada)Access code: 617 400 539
On Fri, 2020-05-15 at 08:18 +0000, Wojciech Kozlowski wrote:Dear QIRG,
A reminder to fill out your availability for a call about the Architectural Principles draft: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__framadate.org_qvA3TcT8M3E1JTi9&d=DwMGaQ&c=XYzUhXBD2cD-CornpT4QE19xOJBbRy-TBPLK0X9U2o8&r=xRe3k8UnFVGCjuC7RWUARpslGfYlRaP7D3dVZXHUEVc&m=zLIAUo2eMK5Pa3NVVOWel5d4_g_YmATW19AzZCYFPvo&s=B7F-gTOGAdXgv-d9S-EQZp3vbFXldElkqgrfxO16h2A&e=" rel="nofollow"> https://framadate.org/qvA3TcT8M3E1JTi9
A bit of background on what I want to do here:
Sections 1-5 set the scene as to what quantum networks are, how they function, etc. Section 6 is about looking forward. Given that we know the building blocks, what do we actually want to build with them? What matters more, what matters less? What should one keep in mind when designing protocols?
My inspiration for section 6 is the following paper by David Clark "The Design Philosophy of the DARPA Internet Protocols": https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__dl.acm.org_doi_pdf_10.1145_52324.52336&d=DwMGaQ&c=XYzUhXBD2cD-CornpT4QE19xOJBbRy-TBPLK0X9U2o8&r=xRe3k8UnFVGCjuC7RWUARpslGfYlRaP7D3dVZXHUEVc&m=NTkjIPMzNW9-rV2psBThpbL_4SczzcreTN9eN2ftlUA&s=zPp6wUaEq0Y3k-EEysQV3ujLntmrsVWYIWKfRUkMmmA&e=" rel="nofollow">https://dl.acm.org/doi/pdf/10.1145/52324.52336
And the following RFC: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__tools.ietf.org_html_rfc1958&d=DwMGaQ&c=XYzUhXBD2cD-CornpT4QE19xOJBbRy-TBPLK0X9U2o8&r=xRe3k8UnFVGCjuC7RWUARpslGfYlRaP7D3dVZXHUEVc&m=NTkjIPMzNW9-rV2psBThpbL_4SczzcreTN9eN2ftlUA&s=giqVITq9aRkr8ZF_pAbOZJVkz1yuK51Rl36ZjKJIm6o&e=" rel="nofollow"> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1958
As RFC 1958 shows this need does not need to be an extensive section, but it's a good place to think a bit how the challenges introduced in the first few sections translate into protocol design.
This section will definitely benefit from protocol design/implementation experience.
Cheers,Wojtek
On Tue, 2020-05-12 at 17:42 +0000, Wojciech Kozlowski wrote:Hi all,
Added two more dates for additional flexibility: June 9 and June 10 (same times). So the meeting options are now June 2, 3, 9, or 10.
Doodle link: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__framadate.org_qvA3TcT8M3E1JTi9&d=DwMGaQ&c=XYzUhXBD2cD-CornpT4QE19xOJBbRy-TBPLK0X9U2o8&r=xRe3k8UnFVGCjuC7RWUARpslGfYlRaP7D3dVZXHUEVc&m=zLIAUo2eMK5Pa3NVVOWel5d4_g_YmATW19AzZCYFPvo&s=B7F-gTOGAdXgv-d9S-EQZp3vbFXldElkqgrfxO16h2A&e=" rel="nofollow"> https://framadate.org/qvA3TcT8M3E1JTi9
Regards,Wojtek
On Tue, 2020-05-12 at 16:47 +0000, Wojciech Kozlowski wrote:Dear QIRG,
To make progress on the Architectural Principles draft one last item of work remains which is section 6: goals and principles. Most of the document is informative and more of a review in content. However, this section allows us to bring some innovative and fresh ideas to the table and it would be great if as the QIRG we could try and do that.
The section is already non-empty so what I'm looking for is to
- go over what's currently written and review it
- discuss any further additions to both goals and principles
Anybody who has read and understood the contents of the draft so far should be able to contribute. Experts in network system design particularly welcome.
As this was meant to be a side meeting in Vancouver, to make progress I would like to organise a 1 hour long virtual meeting on either June 2 or June 3. If you would like to contribute, please fill out your availability using the link below by Monday May 18. For those for whom the time chosen might not be convenient, we will make sure the session is recorded.
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__framadate.org_qvA3TcT8M3E1JTi9&d=DwMBAg&c=XYzUhXBD2cD-CornpT4QE19xOJBbRy-TBPLK0X9U2o8&r=xRe3k8UnFVGCjuC7RWUARpslGfYlRaP7D3dVZXHUEVc&m=90FSMEVguEJgVtbIKzB2Buv9z0nhgXvQzkSyKLVW64E&s=NnK6PpDgAbJ7WAN9SfMmqeuOIdFefQFWVaKDvC4non4&e=" rel="nofollow">https://framadate.org/qvA3TcT8M3E1JTi9
Once this section is complete, the draft will go through some editorial updates + an update on 3 repeater generations currently also in the works. If possible, this might make the draft ready for the next stage by IETF 108.
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