Re: [quicwg/base-drafts] Clarify the side-effect of frequent key updates (#2788)
Kazuho Oku <notifications@github.com> Thu, 13 June 2019 08:24 UTC
Return-Path: <noreply@github.com>
X-Original-To: quic-issues@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: quic-issues@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 138AF12027D for <quic-issues@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 01:24:56 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -8.008
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-8.008 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_32=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MAILING_LIST_MULTI=-1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=github.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5WX4AlkqLF0W for <quic-issues@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 01:24:54 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from out-2.smtp.github.com (out-2.smtp.github.com [192.30.252.193]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 434FC12021B for <quic-issues@ietf.org>; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 01:24:54 -0700 (PDT)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2019 01:24:53 -0700
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=github.com; s=pf2014; t=1560414293; bh=Fb3u4zZkoOih28Hx+aokmgPMDexSdL1qxIdE3ZYVr44=; h=Date:From:Reply-To:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:List-ID: List-Archive:List-Post:List-Unsubscribe:From; b=j0T20rL+G15DtgU5TTapsjLODRijbyHEEzy9JPZYcVYUrJ8sn+0HnpQMXjPrr32Sx CKHQnpLR1n2Rd4nvYSQlEGmEEbz/S+bdMvZXhbuZsSTALtQw0yiCVhyQcmc4K8eeas t7HTJYSbo/RFhsr0a/ZjEjtwFCfTLc0Uz8iBObUs=
From: Kazuho Oku <notifications@github.com>
Reply-To: quicwg/base-drafts <reply+AFTOJK2PNZ2LUD3NQ4VQM4F3B45NJEVBNHHBWJ4I7Y@reply.github.com>
To: quicwg/base-drafts <base-drafts@noreply.github.com>
Cc: Subscribed <subscribed@noreply.github.com>
Message-ID: <quicwg/base-drafts/pull/2788/c501603137@github.com>
In-Reply-To: <quicwg/base-drafts/pull/2788@github.com>
References: <quicwg/base-drafts/pull/2788@github.com>
Subject: Re: [quicwg/base-drafts] Clarify the side-effect of frequent key updates (#2788)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--==_mimepart_5d0208551583_77623ff5188cd96033374c"; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Precedence: list
X-GitHub-Sender: kazuho
X-GitHub-Recipient: quic-issues
X-GitHub-Reason: subscribed
X-Auto-Response-Suppress: All
X-GitHub-Recipient-Address: quic-issues@ietf.org
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/quic-issues/-eyiL-ed7M3lzlOJ6MRll6cltGM>
X-BeenThere: quic-issues@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
List-Id: Notification list for GitHub issues related to the QUIC WG <quic-issues.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/quic-issues>, <mailto:quic-issues-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/quic-issues/>
List-Post: <mailto:quic-issues@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:quic-issues-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/quic-issues>, <mailto:quic-issues-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2019 08:24:56 -0000
@marten-seemann > This PR changes the text such that a peer could effectively refuse to update to the new keys for a period of 3 PTO, thereby inducing massive packet loss on all packets encrypted with the new key phase, even in the absence of packet reordering. I think what you are missing is "endpoint SHOULD retain old keys for a period of no more than three times the PTO" (quoting from section 6). As you can see, the current text already effectively refuses updates more frequent than every 3 PTO. Hence my argument that this is an editorial change. I also do not see why an endpoint need to update the key as frequently as couple of PTOs. Key update exists so that endpoints can replace the keys becoming weak after being used extensively. A key that becomes weak just after couple of PTOs should never be used. Therefore, it is my view is that seeing performance degradation when updating keys too frequently (due to packets being deemed lost) is a non-issue. -- You are receiving this because you are subscribed to this thread. Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub: https://github.com/quicwg/base-drafts/pull/2788#issuecomment-501603137
- [quicwg/base-drafts] Clarify the side-effect of f… Kazuho Oku
- Re: [quicwg/base-drafts] Clarify the side-effect … Marten Seemann
- Re: [quicwg/base-drafts] Clarify the side-effect … Kazuho Oku
- Re: [quicwg/base-drafts] Clarify the side-effect … Marten Seemann
- Re: [quicwg/base-drafts] Clarify the side-effect … Kazuho Oku
- Re: [quicwg/base-drafts] Clarify the side-effect … MikkelFJ
- Re: [quicwg/base-drafts] Clarify the side-effect … Kazuho Oku