Re: [quicwg/base-drafts] Explicit support for on-path calculation of loss and congestion of QUIC flows (#632)

Brian Trammell <notifications@github.com> Mon, 19 June 2017 07:27 UTC

Return-Path: <bounces+848413-a050-quic-issues=ietf.org@sgmail.github.com>
X-Original-To: quic-issues@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: quic-issues@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA2C2127BA3 for <quic-issues@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 19 Jun 2017 00:27:06 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -4.8
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.8 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-2.8, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=github.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YopVgU-KIhnw for <quic-issues@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 19 Jun 2017 00:27:05 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from o4.sgmail.github.com (o4.sgmail.github.com [192.254.112.99]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D5AF91277BB for <quic-issues@ietf.org>; Mon, 19 Jun 2017 00:27:04 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=github.com; h=from:reply-to:to:cc:in-reply-to:references:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:list-id:list-archive:list-post:list-unsubscribe; s=s20150108; bh=xIJTEIs2uvaIFAbmZS/ZZNEXAFE=; b=tT2eo7vsRpDBu5au T2UnQBOXUPooLXOqf7k/ueab883bzIDAR4ttBpuY2JGWHTzJIojde2nkXlnJZz3n vz3d0ZB/X4JUEcYAjWKNbylVMdbh3wbt1OfI1nP14ovNweUN8QG37O/VQUITTitP 0xedzQjuN/zPBSZI88SIyaERphk=
Received: by filter0471p1mdw1.sendgrid.net with SMTP id filter0471p1mdw1-6271-59477CC6-29 2017-06-19 07:27:02.54176951 +0000 UTC
Received: from github-smtp2b-ext-cp1-prd.iad.github.net (github-smtp2b-ext-cp1-prd.iad.github.net [192.30.253.17]) by ismtpd0005p1iad1.sendgrid.net (SG) with ESMTP id -bYJDEPUTC2G5Jgpl2AAqQ for <quic-issues@ietf.org>; Mon, 19 Jun 2017 07:27:02.526 +0000 (UTC)
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2017 00:27:02 -0700
From: Brian Trammell <notifications@github.com>
Reply-To: quicwg/base-drafts <reply+0166e4ab2edd51ae34d8a9b2e58b614accab5025a61de64092cf00000001155f3ec692a169ce0e0f95f5@reply.github.com>
To: quicwg/base-drafts <base-drafts@noreply.github.com>
Cc: Subscribed <subscribed@noreply.github.com>
Message-ID: <quicwg/base-drafts/issues/632/309360150@github.com>
In-Reply-To: <quicwg/base-drafts/issues/632@github.com>
References: <quicwg/base-drafts/issues/632@github.com>
Subject: Re: [quicwg/base-drafts] Explicit support for on-path calculation of loss and congestion of QUIC flows (#632)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--==_mimepart_59477cc65f989_66003fb7b3549c3c887af"; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Precedence: list
X-GitHub-Sender: britram
X-GitHub-Recipient: quic-issues
X-GitHub-Reason: subscribed
X-Auto-Response-Suppress: All
X-GitHub-Recipient-Address: quic-issues@ietf.org
X-SG-EID: l64QuQ2uJCcEyUykJbxN122A6QRmEpucztpreh3Pak3uCM3r4tFkFLxBGzTS5uLu/sTgyPs7f5+t9G HnvBW1oLWPQXx/zNPqzuBWRZGiGE3VZqEc/WhMfTOL7chBydL6qcvq/OGez/wKSEPRUvQZWpG7JGQa zo/DW/0a6Gwwg3UtlKnPqU5MiU1wD+s9E6sG6KIjuwKEAAf3c9+5xV6i/2dOOiPQZYGP1CZCSK4goa s=
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/quic-issues/MizGLuyr0OYtoeBL3clJE5fXS9A>
X-BeenThere: quic-issues@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22
List-Id: Notification list for GitHub issues related to the QUIC WG <quic-issues.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/quic-issues>, <mailto:quic-issues-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/quic-issues/>
List-Post: <mailto:quic-issues@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:quic-issues-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/quic-issues>, <mailto:quic-issues-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2017 07:27:07 -0000

Loss measurement is currently useful in a couple of network troubleshooting and capacity planning tasks: isolating congested links (and upgrading or shifting load away from them), as well as differentiating actual loss at the link layer from congestion (and repairing lossy links). It is useful to measure these conditions both on one's own network (where you can repair them yourself) as well as isolating them to some upstream or downstream path on other networks (so you can work to shift traffic away from those networks).

Universal deployment of useful AQM + ECN would both reduce the absolute magnitude of the congestion problem as well as make loss and congestion easily distinguishable. I'm optimistic about the time horizon here, but it's still measured on the order of decades.

You're right that the inference-based method, assuming that flight size reduction is loss- or congestion-signal related, is not a very high-fidelity signal, and may be useless depending on how the sender does transmission scheduling. So if we're serious about supporting this, I think we do need to take a good look at the ConEx mechanism and see if there's a low-overhead way to support it in QUIC.

-- 
You are receiving this because you are subscribed to this thread.
Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub:
https://github.com/quicwg/base-drafts/issues/632#issuecomment-309360150