IETF Logo Mail Archive

Re: [quicwg/base-drafts] Stateless Reset needs "on-path" proof (#1230)

Martin Thomson <notifications@github.com> Wed, 06 June 2018 09:34 UTC

Return-Path: <noreply@github.com>
X-Original-To: quic-issues@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: quic-issues@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52E8E130EDE for <quic-issues@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 6 Jun 2018 02:34:35 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -8.01
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-8.01 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MAILING_LIST_MULTI=-1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=github.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id B4jpqjvulbSR for <quic-issues@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 6 Jun 2018 02:34:32 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from out-5.smtp.github.com (out-5.smtp.github.com [192.30.252.196]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0B5E0130EDB for <quic-issues@ietf.org>; Wed, 6 Jun 2018 02:34:32 -0700 (PDT)
Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2018 02:34:29 -0700
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=github.com; s=pf2014; t=1528277669; bh=IlKF0QfQvQZzIwqkGXus7y1kL+22W2qzze3ihbcFhHM=; h=Date:From:Reply-To:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:List-ID: List-Archive:List-Post:List-Unsubscribe:From; b=yl+aRReqoPyq20XlQH7u7KsU3YtIMvhRFtMafYPYOZtD1eRA0goEXnumiBU3GI2TD KXfubcnCMUUgkGKcUlEIxkSss3brGK15PpvZCc+0KPfIvRMOHXdz201pRp7p6HD+fy ayoRLL7pM/N0ja1BfsBYTufoewgwgwYBuC+s+aDo=
From: Martin Thomson <notifications@github.com>
Reply-To: quicwg/base-drafts <reply+0166e4ab5ebe0d828d647a477f1cd3ba04622253a5b1629f92cf00000001172f6ca592a169ce12414b9e@reply.github.com>
To: quicwg/base-drafts <base-drafts@noreply.github.com>
Cc: Subscribed <subscribed@noreply.github.com>
Message-ID: <quicwg/base-drafts/issues/1230/395007821@github.com>
In-Reply-To: <quicwg/base-drafts/issues/1230@github.com>
References: <quicwg/base-drafts/issues/1230@github.com>
Subject: Re: [quicwg/base-drafts] Stateless Reset needs "on-path" proof (#1230)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--==_mimepart_5b17aaa59e4fd_1bb32ac5ecb7cf50161074"; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Precedence: list
X-GitHub-Sender: martinthomson
X-GitHub-Recipient: quic-issues
X-GitHub-Reason: subscribed
X-Auto-Response-Suppress: All
X-GitHub-Recipient-Address: quic-issues@ietf.org
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/quic-issues/OpkdQ3RoIpzgcoMB46gjT2RTiho>
X-BeenThere: quic-issues@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26
List-Id: Notification list for GitHub issues related to the QUIC WG <quic-issues.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/quic-issues>, <mailto:quic-issues-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/quic-issues/>
List-Post: <mailto:quic-issues@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:quic-issues-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/quic-issues>, <mailto:quic-issues-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2018 09:34:41 -0000

@martinduke made a good point about this, which made me reconsider this idea.  A man-on-the-side attacker can copy whatever details they need from packets an endpoint sends in its use of a stateless reset oracle.  That is, if the stateless reset depends on data in a packet that an endpoint sends (and it can't depend on anything more than that), then the attacker simply copies whatever it needs from a genuine packet.  A liveness check therefore only really makes the attackers job harder.  Since the fix here that forces the attacker to be live is to make the stateless reset more complex, we should be very careful to consider the trade-off.

-- 
You are receiving this because you are subscribed to this thread.
Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub:
https://github.com/quicwg/base-drafts/issues/1230#issuecomment-395007821

v2.39.1 | Report a Bug | By Email | System Status