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Re: Identifying our deliverables

Roberto Peon <fenix@fb.com> Tue, 30 October 2018 16:36 UTC

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From: Roberto Peon <fenix@fb.com>
To: Mikkel Fahnøe Jørgensen <mikkelfj@gmail.com>, Ian Swett <ianswett=40google.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, Lucas Pardue <lucaspardue.24.7@gmail.com>
CC: Mark Nottingham <mnot@mnot.net>, IETF QUIC WG <quic@ietf.org>, Willy Tarreau <w@1wt.eu>
Subject: Re: Identifying our deliverables
Thread-Topic: Identifying our deliverables
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Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2018 16:34:04 +0000
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References: <578BB4EC-421E-4B21-AA14-B545A41754C8@mnot.net> <20181030052133.GA29963@1wt.eu> <CAKcm_gNbQyvAOVsg7wCj+M83Thsj+=KJD0QGLcq42-RAwhTf=g@mail.gmail.com> <CALGR9oZSj0GSa=3EVFt27=DLahqJj+qS0nUSfqFNf+NWnEbsLg@mail.gmail.com> <CAN1APdeKSWYFgtiKT-=eQ0=o+Mm6pyFeY00trd+SMLKNdVofxw@mail.gmail.com>
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Since there isn’t any particular need to identify QUIC the transport (without mechanisms to explicitly multiplex multiple protocols), I think calling HTTP-on-QUIC H3 is the right move.
QUIC without anything else is as meaningless as TCP without anything else from a what-the-server-will-speak perspective.
-=R

From: QUIC <quic-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Mikkel Fahnøe Jørgensen <mikkelfj@gmail.com>
Date: Tuesday, October 30, 2018 at 7:29 AM
To: Ian Swett <ianswett=40google.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, Lucas Pardue <lucaspardue.24.7@gmail.com>
Cc: Mark Nottingham <mnot@mnot.net>, IETF QUIC WG <quic@ietf.org>, Willy Tarreau <w@1wt.eu>
Subject: Re: Identifying our deliverables

Recent edits in transport also use terms such as “This frame is only used in the QUIC layer” which is slightly confusing when QUIC/HTTP is also a (higher) level QUIC layer while “QUIC layer” refers to the transport layer only, implicitly.

Mikkel



On 30 October 2018 at 15.26.19, Lucas Pardue (lucaspardue.24.7@gmail.com<mailto:lucaspardue.24.7@gmail.com>) wrote:
I echo Ian's thoughts, "HTTP over QUIC" doesn't work well as a term in practice.

I support this change, using an incremental number is logical, and is compatible with the ecosystem that expects an HTTP version number.



On Tue, 30 Oct 2018, 13:56 Ian Swett, <ianswett=40google.com@dmarc.ietf..org<mailto:40google.com@dmarc.ietf.org>> wrote:
From a completely practical perspective, I support this because I can't tell you how many times I've had to explain the difference between the HTTP over QUIC mapping and QUIC the transport.

And moving the HTTP over QUIC and QPACK documents to the HTTP working group seems like the right thing to do.

On Tue, Oct 30, 2018 at 1:21 AM Willy Tarreau <w@1wt.eu<mailto:w@1wt.eu>> wrote:
On Sun, Oct 28, 2018 at 11:30:55AM +1100, Mark Nottingham wrote:
> To address this, I'd like to suggest that -- after coordination with the HTTP
> WG -- we rename our the HTTP document to "HTTP/3", and using the final ALPN
> token "h3". Doing so clearly identifies it as another binding of HTTP
> semantics to the wire protocol -- just as HTTP/2 did -- so people understand
> its separation from QUIC.

FWIW I always thought that HTTP/3 should be its final naming -- just like SPDY
became HTTP/2 -- for various reasons, one of them being encouraging adoption
by the protocol being presented as the natural upgrade to the previous ones
and not a competitor that's been there for some time and suddenly comes as
an RFC.

H1 with 723x, then H2 with 754x have shown that it's not a problem to cover
multiple areas with a common name and that the protocol itself is in fact a
family of protocols and mechanisms. So QPACK will naturally fall under H3
just like HPACK naturally belongs to H2.

Just my two cents,
Willy

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