From nobody Sun Nov 29 04:27:24 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: quic@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: quic@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 150B53A14B6 for ; Sun, 29 Nov 2020 04:27:23 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VQ8q6gawLGvr for ; Sun, 29 Nov 2020 04:27:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx-out-02.fh-muenster.de (mx-out-02.fh-muenster.de [212.201.120.206]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3EBEF3A14B1 for ; Sun, 29 Nov 2020 04:27:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-director-01.fh-muenster.de (mail-director-01.fh-muenster.de [185.149.215.227]) by mx-out-02.fh-muenster.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D1EC6E09DA; Sun, 29 Nov 2020 13:26:47 +0100 (CET) Received: from fhad-ex03.fhad.fh-muenster.de (fhad-ex03.fhad.fh-muenster.de [10.40.11.26]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail-director-01.fh-muenster.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BAAEC1A00E0; Sun, 29 Nov 2020 13:26:47 +0100 (CET) Received: from fhad-ex04.fhad.fh-muenster.de (10.40.11.27) by fhad-ex03.fhad.fh-muenster.de (10.40.11.26) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256) id 15.1.1979.3; Sun, 29 Nov 2020 13:26:47 +0100 Received: from fhad-ex04.fhad.fh-muenster.de ([fe80::c97a:37b6:5abe:2799]) by fhad-ex04.fhad.fh-muenster.de ([fe80::c97a:37b6:5abe:2799%2]) with mapi id 15.01.1979.006; Sun, 29 Nov 2020 13:26:47 +0100 From: =?utf-8?B?VGltbyBWw7Zsa2Vy?= To: Ian Swett CC: IETF QUIC WG Subject: Re: Persistent Congestion and in-flight Thread-Topic: Persistent Congestion and in-flight Thread-Index: AQHWxJaI/8Clb3F+5Uq5wTa2oWXarKnddOiAgAGG9QA= Date: Sun, 29 Nov 2020 12:26:47 +0000 Message-ID: <6D3046F3-E1A1-4747-9274-D46352955A27@fh-muenster.de> References: <240AC4CC-0AD8-49A6-8234-398C02AC64A0@fh-muenster.de> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US, de-DE Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.40.10.31] Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_14BAD2B8-262D-4E79-A93C-3DEB90429289"; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha-256 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: X-BeenThere: quic@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Main mailing list of the IETF QUIC working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 29 Nov 2020 12:27:23 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_14BAD2B8-262D-4E79-A93C-3DEB90429289 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Ian, Thanks again for your help. Is there a reason why packets that do not count as in-flight are = irrelevant for persistent congestion? I find section 7.6.2. very helpful. It gave me a better idea how to = implement a persistent congestion detection. However, there are two = points where I scratch my head. The section starts with:=20 > A sender establishes persistent congestion on receiving an = acknowledgement... The pseudo code tell me that that I have to check for persistent = congestion also if the loss detection timer fires and earliest_loss_time = is not zero. Do I miss something? The first bullet point in the section starts with > all packets... Based on what I have learned, it should be "all in-flight packets...", = right? Timo > On 28. Nov 2020, at 14:07, Ian Swett wrote: >=20 >=20 >=20 > On Fri, Nov 27, 2020 at 3:23 AM Timo V=C3=B6lker = wrote: > Hi all, >=20 > Section 7.6. starts the explanation of Persistent Congestion with >=20 > > When a sender establishes loss of all in-flight packets... >=20 > Does this mean that packets that do not count as in-flight (e.g. a = packet that contains only an ACK frame) are ignored here? >=20 > Yes.=20 >=20 > To refer to the example in section 7.6.3. What if at t=3D4.5 a packet = were send with only an ACK frame, which gets acknowledged along with the = last sent ack-eliciting packet with the ack received at t=3D12.2? Would = this be still a persistent congestion or not? >=20 > That would still be persistent congestion because you'd be = establishing loss of all in-flight packets. 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