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Re: Adding ECN to Transport and Recovery

Ian Swett <ianswett@google.com> Tue, 12 June 2018 12:33 UTC

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References: <26584f2a-230b-c55e-db16-d32225c8ee4d@ericsson.com> <5a82e9ef-971f-6510-866c-9886e73796a9@ericsson.com> <20180608150833.GB13418@ubuntu-dmitri> <CAKcm_gM_OHgWcJ+ktAg9BCQx1rtHc9GFg2bZG40-NcO2MoVG9w@mail.gmail.com> <CANatvzySuzK9EO13m_UQxb4wZkYW=+6By3QMU5gKXhq69gaUag@mail.gmail.com> <790ec098-9ec9-5eff-4785-d71d9ac92059@huitema.net> <73B82E99-EFEE-4DBC-A2CA-8FA381F33C5E@trammell.ch> <CAKcm_gN-s0XVsGL2LLusvcm5_hp-Z5_9OFMkwph5m_bGMDbAtQ@mail.gmail.com> <55DA3F1D-2B09-4D25-9630-6BC85B68A3AF@huitema.net> <CACpbDcdTtQBLNhhiX_+wWCo-OzVvBKBpS-8RsYRcZ30xhefQZQ@mail.gmail.com> <1023590e-83d4-bed2-640a-f5cd131677d4@ericsson.com> <c89e100409774521b24cbe0c1167d978@ustx2ex-dag1mb6.msg.corp.akamai.com> <8cbb589e-860b-9007-4f07-adf7c43f037b@ericsson.com> <af85bf371c9f423d88acc4a674e9e3b0@ustx2ex-dag1mb6.msg.corp.akamai.com> <7FBCB032-0B09-42CA-B3F3-4F2EBE664D7A@netapp.com>
In-Reply-To: <7FBCB032-0B09-42CA-B3F3-4F2EBE664D7A@netapp.com>
From: Ian Swett <ianswett@google.com>
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2018 08:33:17 -0400
Message-ID: <CAKcm_gPbfCS_51feanmVBCwCFhZETBhzPMPN6g0sti_DrWJQPg@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Adding ECN to Transport and Recovery
To: "Eggert, Lars" <lars@netapp.com>
Cc: ilubashe=40akamai.com@dmarc.ietf.org, Magnus Westerlund <magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com>, Jana Iyengar <jri.ietf@gmail.com>, Christian Huitema <huitema@huitema.net>, Brian Trammell <ietf@trammell.ch>, IETF QUIC WG <quic@ietf.org>
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I'd be shocked if anyone tried to use this attack in practice, and as Lars
said, this is in no way specific to QUIC.  The one case I can imagine
someone wanting to inject ECN is an on path middlebox, in which case that's
what ECN is for.

I don't think this needs to be part of v1.

On Tue, Jun 12, 2018 at 8:27 AM Eggert, Lars <lars@netapp.com> wrote:

> On 2018-6-12, at 14:17, Lubashev, Igor <ilubashe=
> 40akamai.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
> > The only thing that makes an attack on the congestion window nefarious
> vs an attack on version negotiation is that it leaves the user with an
> impression that the service is poor vs that the network is interfering with
> him connecting to the service.
>
> Right, but that is not specific to QUIC.
>
> There are possibilities to add mitigations at a later stage (QUIC v2 or
> v1.1), but I personally don't think these need to be part of v1.
>
> Lars
>

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