Re: Compression and zstd licensing update

Mikkel Fahnøe Jørgensen <mikkelfj@gmail.com> Mon, 02 October 2017 15:04 UTC

Return-Path: <mikkelfj@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: quic@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: quic@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64608134691 for <quic@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 2 Oct 2017 08:04:11 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.697
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.697 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QH6QMyrprEDE for <quic@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 2 Oct 2017 08:04:05 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-io0-x232.google.com (mail-io0-x232.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c06::232]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D3B55132076 for <quic@ietf.org>; Mon, 2 Oct 2017 08:04:04 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-io0-x232.google.com with SMTP id w94so4970225ioi.7 for <quic@ietf.org>; Mon, 02 Oct 2017 08:04:04 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=8gDrEmBZZjO7Ii2pePZHdr3Qq9s/PnZkC36C6hJ2iIE=; b=AtrnQdqNBI3Fz5KD8B9k39EQoYAOrhFsPHIP+mlDRta/a82LoFQITQEz9EG8LenLKm QEh6gSAtyGvAU5YbjLSVqnkiRwS2ZfD4klJylwM7Uewp+5GhHgYH5WNChHNNei3jiexg FVo7rBSEZKn0KFC0+j25TCdp43nyH0fdF5BZUN8z9RLiEI51vLahU/3eESq+nBKyT4HM zKj0ZVtjgNri4eT46V0D80Y9+DHfgu9UDyn5wP6/QsSKlcshF7mYMi0w4ygxZSgWvG4y 3cOQxB9pMCm6NANp5aoJOEcIdfNWPWduSm8CFdgTv3o8nmQtd2j+fIaujmdqGNMlHivK bSgA==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=8gDrEmBZZjO7Ii2pePZHdr3Qq9s/PnZkC36C6hJ2iIE=; b=BHjM+Qe3OgO4Mwn3Bi7Xyq66P5BlHPgJwk6q6q8UD9sEkv91RPBFxSjVRQ3FUYWJ+3 X6BWP/dfUIsrLV/yhjWEOlFDlk9idqseO+od0tHracfN+BphSBPcO3KMtb2rt//1N1G1 jExUeMorDLRHOMswpVvDI15dYUaOKhuGBpjiyq7kE5zQFDKjrnDtb5Xef1TTypUs63re YkqJ/be7dY4I/+634EusCsiepLkgL6+v86lwf7j0KtJ2Y8+XF20gqDyCReBERI+ai5Z0 AD1+q5C0I0wC1lQL2D1bBMNmHE1FFpcEGkTtyqQPJm+2j/KSq8JhQFD33h1tIucZOktC tsDA==
X-Gm-Message-State: AMCzsaU6O1rW2h+jyOt+spyKek9wzzQT0iuwezo6gJoR2sdsEc9Nj9Z9 1joig0KFurfAS2izB0ta0i73VV9XoL9pJnQRpmTzqg==
X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QCSVi9bGoatL0GEcUq9PK3MtZ65RboS/aR6qRZkbVagQhFBWgq/pj49fSCkzgzbhZ80ys7tNcRGGvwd8VJdnkI=
X-Received: by 10.107.147.196 with SMTP id v187mr24825748iod.92.1506956644116; Mon, 02 Oct 2017 08:04:04 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from 1058052472880 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Mon, 2 Oct 2017 17:04:03 +0200
From: Mikkel Fahnøe Jørgensen <mikkelfj@gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CABcZeBNfHRss-q6vT7jUx0q5T1c_qhasXpSJXLk5TqnPZYANng@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAN1APddm+vU4JsMBJLCoGiyOhjPBnFP=d2DeSzm983+GY0nYMg@mail.gmail.com> <CABcZeBNfHRss-q6vT7jUx0q5T1c_qhasXpSJXLk5TqnPZYANng@mail.gmail.com>
X-Mailer: Airmail (420)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2017 17:04:03 +0200
Message-ID: <CAN1APddSr5f2Giw60cDJ4JZwdTtW5MK27s68=GRWgzh5D1CV2g@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Compression and zstd licensing update
To: Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com>
Cc: IETF QUIC WG <quic@ietf.org>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="94eb2c05b10e76ed8f055a91af62"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/quic/9S2n-P1FpAQCJPdLRdnbQC3fQGg>
X-BeenThere: quic@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22
Precedence: list
List-Id: Main mailing list of the IETF QUIC working group <quic.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/quic>, <mailto:quic-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/quic/>
List-Post: <mailto:quic@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:quic-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/quic>, <mailto:quic-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2017 15:04:11 -0000

Certainly not for transport, I fully agree.

But some application level protocols do need compression - in the extreme
you would not send images in RAW format. I do not have a good answer to the
risks of compression other than ensuring padding up to a certain block size
and avoid compressing very sensitive data. Have applications protocols
handling this might be safer than having leaving it to arbitrary
pre-compression fed into the com channel.

Regardless, I’m not advocating adding compression, only highlighting that
wherever compression is deemed relevant, zstd is now a more approachable
option.

Kind Regards,
Mikkel Fahnøe Jørgensen


On 2 October 2017 at 16.54.05, Eric Rescorla (ekr@rtfm.com) wrote:

I would not be in favor of including any compression of the plaintext in
QUIC. We already know that compression + encryption is dangerous, which is
why we removed it from TLS 1.3.

-Ekr


On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 2:20 AM, Mikkel Fahnøe Jørgensen <mikkelfj@gmail.com>
wrote:

> FYI:
>
> I have just gotten confirmation by the author that Facebooks zstd
> compression library is now a pure BSD license without PATENTS protection
> claims which Facebook also removed from ReactJS and graphQL.
>
> This means that zstd it could be a viable compression technology, for
> example in QUIC/HTTP - though I haven’t followed the HTTP efforts closely.
>
> zstd appears to have the best tradeoff in terms of
> cost/bandwidth/computation effort while I personally would use LZ4 for some
> performance critical applications to due raw speed where bandwidth is
> sufficient.
>
>
>
> Kind Regards,
> Mikkel Fahnøe Jørgensen
>
>