Re: Packet number encryption

Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie> Sun, 04 February 2018 19:23 UTC

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Subject: Re: Packet number encryption
To: "Fossati, Thomas (Nokia - GB/Cambridge)" <thomas.fossati@nokia.com>, "Lubashev, Igor" <ilubashe@akamai.com>, "Roni Even (A)" <roni.even@huawei.com>, Roberto Peon <fenix@fb.com>, Piotr Galecki <piotr_galecki@affirmednetworks.com>, Jana Iyengar <jri@google.com>
Cc: Gorry Fairhust <gorry@erg.abdn.ac.uk>, Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com>, Christian Huitema <huitema@huitema.net>, "Eggert, Lars" <lars@netapp.com>, Brian Trammell <ietf@trammell.ch>, Mirja Kühlewind <mirja.kuehlewind@tik.ee.ethz.ch>, QUIC WG <quic@ietf.org>, Martin Thomson <martin.thomson@gmail.com>
References: <CABkgnnVyo3MmWtVULiV=FJTnR528qfY8-OmKGWAs0bCvri-a_g@mail.gmail.com> <1F7FB3B8-A94C-4354-9944-FB09FB8DB68B@trammell.ch> <CABcZeBMbwdwyC9TxxHBLYaZKfNB-FG2wCGjqUZ_mNR-A1R47FA@mail.gmail.com> <9096e5ec-581e-875a-b1dd-bff0b05206fd@huitema.net> <CABkgnnWRQSAufwPss+qf=xAzCwRYeNNH8XLPm3yFaHxOb+ba4g@mail.gmail.com> <BF80500A-6277-45DC-8525-9C3FE138B76D@tik.ee.ethz.ch> <5A7191E0.6010003@erg.abdn.ac.uk> <5214AD93-8376-4B25-922F-AF5551CC2E95@netapp.com> <F990E064-E6F8-41A3-B791-F776C9955E15@nokia.com> <CAGD1bZab0GaZFsHwC+nw3AxxC4VusxMJ6oDanzk3dSDdWKAXdw@mail.gmail.com> <2C515BE8694C6F4B9B6A578BCAC32E2F83BA1443@MBX021-W3-CA-2.exch021.domain.local> <BY2PR15MB07757473DB9788558B902EB5CDF80@BY2PR15MB0775.namprd15.prod.outlook.com> <6E58094ECC8D8344914996DAD28F1CCD861B7F@DGGEMM506-MBX.china.huawei.com> <e529144067624fcba636fc8c24ee3ff4@usma1ex-dag1mb5.msg.corp.akamai.com> <91a9d1df-c3f3-127b-ba59-942c275c00e1@cs.tcd.ie> <05116D6F-34E5-4971-A121-B80D721B9D00@nokia.com>
From: Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie>
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Date: Sun, 04 Feb 2018 19:23:21 +0000
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Hiya,

On 04/02/18 19:14, Fossati, Thomas (Nokia - GB/Cambridge) wrote:
> On 04/02/2018, 18:51, "Stephen Farrell" <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie>
> wrote:
>> In addition, I'd like to point out a flaw in the above - the
>> question is posed in terms of an "end user client" making decisions
>> for "end users not particularly concerned" with a privacy enhancing
>> feature. I don't believe that programmers can really determine such
>> things (no matter how often someone says they "care deeply";-)
> 
> In user agents I guess this would be handled as a configurable
> user's preference, not a as hard-coded value.  We could have it MTI
> and on by default.  Software vendors who produce user facing
> technology have a strong incentive to do this kind of things right.

Hmm, it's a bit of an aside, and likely not decidable, but I'm not
sure you're right that implementers (whether vendors or open-source
implementers or whatever) are always driven by end-user's concerns.

And in this case, I'm not sure that an application-by-application
approach even works - even if N-1 of the N applications I use do a
great job wrt linkability, when the N-th application is careless I
can lose all benefits. (And yes, combinations of TCP and DHCP can
result in the same bad outcome, but that's not a reason to do less
well than we can IMO.)

So I still hope the WG study the trade-offs and make doing the best
we can for privacy the only option.

S.



> 
> Cheers!
> 

-- 
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