Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about the multipath extension milestone
Olivier Bonaventure <Olivier.Bonaventure@uclouvain.be> Wed, 30 September 2020 10:28 UTC
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Reply-To: Olivier.Bonaventure@uclouvain.be
Subject: Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about the multipath extension milestone
To: Lucas Pardue <lucaspardue.24.7@gmail.com>
Cc: Matt Joras <matt.joras@gmail.com>, QUIC WG <quic@ietf.org>, Spencer Dawkins at IETF <spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com>
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From: Olivier Bonaventure <Olivier.Bonaventure@uclouvain.be>
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Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2020 12:28:13 +0200
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Lucas, > > As an HTTP/3 implementer, I believe it to be the best example we have of > a protocol that exercises the generic transport capabilities. > Particularly stream multiplexing, HoL avoidance, synchronisation across > independent streams, sensitivity to iwnd and cwnd, and large transfers > in both directions. > > Yes, there are other application protocols. But I am not aware of ones > that can so clearly demonstrate impacts of stream interactions. This can > be in the form of user-perceived performance or industry metrics such as > Web Vitals [1]. > > HTTP is also a good example of a widely deployed application semantic > that has been implemented across different libraries that have different > design choices. This is an important consideration for the > prioiritzation work because we need to consider what information an > application is able to access from the transport, and how the > application may/may not govern over transport behaviour. QUIC transport > defines a set functions on streams that an application can rely upon > [2], how does MP-QUIC augment that? > > I'm concerned about generic transport capabilities that cannot be > reasonably used by applications without deep integration or layering > violations. So it would be very useful for me to understand how a piece > of HTTP server software (as an example of a real, complex application) > would leverage MP-QUIC. > > [1] - https://web.dev/vitals/ > [2] - https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-quic-transport-31#section-2.4 MPQUIC would provide the same streams abstraction as QUIC, no changes are required to [2]. To support multiple streams a QUIC sender needs to include an algorithm to decide which data frame (from which stream) needs to be sent when there is a transmission opportunity (congestion window is open). MPQUIC is similar, except that it needs to decide on which path the data will be sent. We could expose some information about the different paths to the applications, but I don't think that this is required. A MPQUIC implementation will select the utilisation of the different paths based on policies that typically depend on the use case and the deployment model. Different policies can be defined as different QUIC implementations might use different congestion control schemes or different stream schedulers. Considering your HTTP server use case, here are a few possible policies and their impact on MPQUIC. 1. Consider a dual-stack HTTP server that wants to use the best performing path between IPv6 and IPv4. When a client connects over IPv4, the server advertises its IPv6 address and MPQUIC automatically starts to use the two path. If one is significantly better, traffic will move to that path without any involvment of the HTTP server 2. Consider again a HTTP server that serves customers in rural areas where DSL and 4G are slow and in cities where fiber is deployed. When smartphones connect, they advertise to MPQUIC their WiFi (attached to DSL/fiber) and 4G addresses. MPQUIC can be configured to only accept a second subflow over the 4G if the primary one does not perform correctly. With MPQUIC, the HTTP server would aggregate the 4G and DSL bandwidth in rural areas while only using fiber in cities. The main benefit of putting multipath inside the transport is that the application does not need to handle the problems that occur on any of these paths. The transport has access to round-trip-times and loss measurements and has all the information required to manage the different paths efficiently. Olivier
- IETF Last Call for QUIC Lars Eggert
- Preparing for discussion on what to do about the … Spencer Dawkins at IETF
- Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about … Mikkel Fahnøe Jørgensen
- RE: Preparing for discussion on what to do about … Flinck, Hannu (Nokia - FI/Espoo)
- Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about … Behcet Sarikaya
- Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about … Olivier Bonaventure
- Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about … Lucas Pardue
- Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about … Matt Joras
- RE:(2) Preparing for discussion on what to do abo… Madhan Raj Kanagarathinam
- Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about … Olivier Bonaventure
- Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about … Lucas Pardue
- Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about … Marten Seemann
- Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about … Olivier Bonaventure
- Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about … Olivier Bonaventure
- Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about … Lucas Pardue
- Multipath inside transport (was: Re: Preparing fo… Spencer Dawkins at IETF
- Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about … Robin MARX
- Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about … Olivier Bonaventure
- Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about … Lucas Pardue
- Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about … Olivier Bonaventure
- Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about … Lucas Pardue
- Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about … Ian Swett
- Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about … Martin Duke
- Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about … Spencer Dawkins at IETF
- Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about … Kazuho Oku
- Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about … Ian Swett
- Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about … Christian Huitema
- Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about … Martin Thomson
- Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about … Olivier Bonaventure
- Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about … Lucas Pardue
- Composability of extensions (was: Re: Preparing f… Lucas Pardue
- Re: Composability of extensions (was: Re: Prepari… Dmitri Tikhonov
- Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about … Martin Duke
- Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about … Spencer Dawkins at IETF
- Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about … Behcet Sarikaya
- Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about … Christian Huitema
- Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about … Martin Duke
- Re: Composability of extensions (was: Re: Prepari… Christian Huitema
- Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about … Behcet Sarikaya
- Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about … Spencer Dawkins at IETF
- Re: Composability of extensions (was: Re: Prepari… Lucas Pardue
- Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about … Christoph Paasch
- Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about … Matt Joras
- Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about … Lucas Pardue
- Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about … Spencer Dawkins at IETF
- Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about … Christoph Paasch
- Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about … Lucas Pardue
- Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about … Christoph Paasch
- Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about … Lucas Pardue
- Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about … Ian Swett
- Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about … Olivier Bonaventure
- Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about … Olivier Bonaventure
- Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about … Olivier Bonaventure
- Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about … Olivier Bonaventure
- Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about … Olivier Bonaventure
- Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about … Lucas Pardue
- Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about … Spencer Dawkins at IETF
- Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about … Matt Joras
- Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about … Olivier Bonaventure
- Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about … Olivier Bonaventure
- Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about … Olivier Bonaventure
- Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about … Olivier Bonaventure
- Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about … Olivier Bonaventure
- Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about … Jana Iyengar
- Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about … Spencer Dawkins at IETF
- Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about … Lucas Pardue
- Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about … Tommy Pauly