Re: Identifying our deliverables
Jana Iyengar <jri.ietf@gmail.com> Tue, 30 October 2018 17:59 UTC
Return-Path: <jri.ietf@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: quic@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: quic@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 42895130D7A for <quic@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 30 Oct 2018 10:59:05 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -0.999
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, FREEMAIL_REPLY=1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uNOAqIOj8BUM for <quic@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 30 Oct 2018 10:59:03 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-lf1-x135.google.com (mail-lf1-x135.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::135]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1CCC7127333 for <quic@ietf.org>; Tue, 30 Oct 2018 10:59:03 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-lf1-x135.google.com with SMTP id o2-v6so9577651lfl.13 for <quic@ietf.org>; Tue, 30 Oct 2018 10:59:03 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=koDj3CZsF6b4XAzOjhiM7gjsIy4OWsKDbtg/d1BYsJI=; b=rZ0V0qym93UaYMdnWTSY744uQDUQA3LC0Daew93iX7NuexHtLxlDScgssXfnDXIn5O 86wgrw72n6HC9u8AXENTGQM4boQYk4mXKwUDYOrqrPp9mrqA0V/inz+kpB+I5GTDNqj4 WdTCCFrNPcn4XIcsQxQ2gcDTttze9w03Ouo1beTRaDnHpIRKgYjzmOBOFPeRveYnLlrR ov6U3OFn1sHPaAtWcj1FjrdxS6OWaJZt7Bnpw8HpZpXonPOJylJCGvHvr6KUhj+XoVz7 bT0Z0ukk1TbRFov0yWfd8Y/PbDqK4B/EFfZV2QLMtg2YQrAW0hdhauNaxWdzADERD2Uw oGxw==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=koDj3CZsF6b4XAzOjhiM7gjsIy4OWsKDbtg/d1BYsJI=; b=RFQPq0Q4aUS76uva6NLvweCFNF/AsRCgkuKVfg/02bD6gt9mXxQh9yIhqsJB5W6KCA 3GRBeTo5V49Y2Bn2FhiLM9a5z4W/Dzs0hDwT78Cskg/2IwTHJOmQCXXuV4ZkQpiVsm9H eX5CoSU1bD1KqHZKHaE4NWPwlUcUcC+frAJSKqqESyWbt+f6m1ERq1B7vOYmz2JvV5GT Ol7P7+oh1MFa+8hL+g7QZZESQKKZSql9cXD3OpbX2oKnIwlJohLFSIxBIWjRmnMvRhmn bM/MAPgQcHLmPBNvM/JC02lnATx+sg2v0M/XiuqBB+e2YXHi8WBq5nFag3pC8RHikzgc kVFQ==
X-Gm-Message-State: AGRZ1gIwYvqGqj849jZ6Mn2FX6qlvvwr8mBX44JH09TgHsUbPESLhAy1 KHnva3+RJJnVSBCku0Znf4jG2h/arUfG24poXUI=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: AJdET5ctIr+VHpDftWbQG2cagr5yXc22CUFBcyr6tZTtbWXojDXWsoYMjCtGtb28CljTBgzQ936No1TN9M5/SFANnQw=
X-Received: by 2002:a19:1a41:: with SMTP id a62-v6mr2579045lfa.40.1540922341223; Tue, 30 Oct 2018 10:59:01 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <578BB4EC-421E-4B21-AA14-B545A41754C8@mnot.net> <20181030052133.GA29963@1wt.eu> <CAKcm_gNbQyvAOVsg7wCj+M83Thsj+=KJD0QGLcq42-RAwhTf=g@mail.gmail.com> <CALGR9oZSj0GSa=3EVFt27=DLahqJj+qS0nUSfqFNf+NWnEbsLg@mail.gmail.com> <CAN1APdeKSWYFgtiKT-=eQ0=o+Mm6pyFeY00trd+SMLKNdVofxw@mail.gmail.com> <B1357972-7731-4B9E-AA80-A36D4F31306C@fb.com>
In-Reply-To: <B1357972-7731-4B9E-AA80-A36D4F31306C@fb.com>
From: Jana Iyengar <jri.ietf@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2018 10:58:49 -0700
Message-ID: <CACpbDcfHNxUnXXNF6Tarapaw+=0SkHVGT9Wj7a967BKAibsDqQ@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Identifying our deliverables
To: Roberto Peon <fenix@fb.com>
Cc: Mikkel Fahnøe Jørgensen <mikkelfj@gmail.com>, Ian Swett <ianswett=40google.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, lucaspardue.24.7@gmail.com, Mark Nottingham <mnot@mnot.net>, QUIC WG <quic@ietf.org>, w@1wt.eu
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000c67289057975f01f"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/quic/LKMqlT0PeBpKAnOadq4VZ2jbu-E>
X-BeenThere: quic@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: Main mailing list of the IETF QUIC working group <quic.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/quic>, <mailto:quic-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/quic/>
List-Post: <mailto:quic@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:quic-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/quic>, <mailto:quic-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2018 17:59:05 -0000
I'll add to the chorus: I'm in favor of this change. On Tue, Oct 30, 2018 at 9:36 AM Roberto Peon <fenix@fb.com> wrote: > Since there isn’t any particular need to identify QUIC the transport > (without mechanisms to explicitly multiplex multiple protocols), I think > calling HTTP-on-QUIC H3 is the right move. > > QUIC without anything else is as meaningless as TCP without anything else > from a what-the-server-will-speak perspective. > -=R > > > > *From: *QUIC <quic-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Mikkel Fahnøe Jørgensen > <mikkelfj@gmail.com> > *Date: *Tuesday, October 30, 2018 at 7:29 AM > *To: *Ian Swett <ianswett=40google.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, Lucas Pardue < > lucaspardue.24.7@gmail.com> > *Cc: *Mark Nottingham <mnot@mnot.net>, IETF QUIC WG <quic@ietf.org>, > Willy Tarreau <w@1wt.eu> > *Subject: *Re: Identifying our deliverables > > > > Recent edits in transport also use terms such as “This frame is only used > in the QUIC layer” which is slightly confusing when QUIC/HTTP is also a > (higher) level QUIC layer while “QUIC layer” refers to the transport layer > only, implicitly. > > > > Mikkel > > > > > > On 30 October 2018 at 15.26.19, Lucas Pardue (lucaspardue.24.7@gmail.com) > wrote: > > I echo Ian's thoughts, "HTTP over QUIC" doesn't work well as a term in > practice. > > > > I support this change, using an incremental number is logical, and is > compatible with the ecosystem that expects an HTTP version number. > > > > > > > > On Tue, 30 Oct 2018, 13:56 Ian Swett, <ianswett= > 40google.com@dmarc.ietf..org <40google.com@dmarc.ietf.org>> wrote: > > From a completely practical perspective, I support this because I can't > tell you how many times I've had to explain the difference between the HTTP > over QUIC mapping and QUIC the transport. > > > > And moving the HTTP over QUIC and QPACK documents to the HTTP working > group seems like the right thing to do. > > > > On Tue, Oct 30, 2018 at 1:21 AM Willy Tarreau <w@1wt.eu> wrote: > > On Sun, Oct 28, 2018 at 11:30:55AM +1100, Mark Nottingham wrote: > > To address this, I'd like to suggest that -- after coordination with the > HTTP > > WG -- we rename our the HTTP document to "HTTP/3", and using the final > ALPN > > token "h3". Doing so clearly identifies it as another binding of HTTP > > semantics to the wire protocol -- just as HTTP/2 did -- so people > understand > > its separation from QUIC. > > FWIW I always thought that HTTP/3 should be its final naming -- just like > SPDY > became HTTP/2 -- for various reasons, one of them being encouraging > adoption > by the protocol being presented as the natural upgrade to the previous ones > and not a competitor that's been there for some time and suddenly comes as > an RFC. > > H1 with 723x, then H2 with 754x have shown that it's not a problem to cover > multiple areas with a common name and that the protocol itself is in fact a > family of protocols and mechanisms. So QPACK will naturally fall under H3 > just like HPACK naturally belongs to H2. > > Just my two cents, > Willy > >
- Identifying our deliverables Mark Nottingham
- Re: Identifying our deliverables Willy Tarreau
- Re: Identifying our deliverables Ian Swett
- Re: Identifying our deliverables Lucas Pardue
- Re: Identifying our deliverables Mikkel Fahnøe Jørgensen
- Re: Identifying our deliverables Roberto Peon
- Re: Identifying our deliverables Jana Iyengar
- Re: Identifying our deliverables Roy T. Fielding
- Re: Identifying our deliverables Mikkel Fahnøe Jørgensen
- Re: Identifying our deliverables Jana Iyengar
- Re: Identifying our deliverables Daniel Stenberg
- RE: Identifying our deliverables Mike Bishop
- Re: Identifying our deliverables Willy Tarreau